1 00:00:05,210 --> 00:00:11,210 First, cast the beam out of thine own eye 2 00:00:11,418 --> 00:00:16,918 and then the mote from mine. 3 00:00:29,626 --> 00:00:31,876 Jesus takes off his shirt. 4 00:00:32,043 --> 00:00:34,960 And lets others speak. 5 00:00:35,126 --> 00:00:39,460 He kneels before the first one, 6 00:00:41,918 --> 00:00:45,168 washing his dusty feet with his shirt. 7 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:03,251 I am not the Jesus of the official Church, 8 00:01:05,418 --> 00:01:08,876 who the police, bankers, 9 00:01:09,043 --> 00:01:13,418 judges, hangmen, officers, church bosses, politicians, 10 00:01:13,585 --> 00:01:15,960 and other powerful people, tolerate. 11 00:01:18,585 --> 00:01:21,793 I am not your superstar. 12 00:01:26,043 --> 00:01:29,585 Shut up so that you can hear what I'm saying. 13 00:01:30,126 --> 00:01:34,668 Come up here, bigmouth! 14 00:01:37,251 --> 00:01:39,168 I am not a great speaker, 15 00:01:39,501 --> 00:01:43,543 but maybe some of you seek Christ. 16 00:01:43,543 --> 00:01:45,626 But I don't think this is Him. 17 00:01:45,793 --> 00:01:50,876 Because Christ was tolerant, 18 00:01:51,043 --> 00:01:56,835 and if someone contradicted Him, He would not tell them to shut up. 19 00:01:58,126 --> 00:02:00,626 No, He didn't say shut up! 20 00:02:00,793 --> 00:02:05,960 He took a whip and smacked their ugly faces! 21 00:02:06,126 --> 00:02:10,543 That's what He did, you stupid pig! 22 00:02:11,626 --> 00:02:18,501 And if only one of you wants to hear me, 23 00:02:18,501 --> 00:02:24,418 he has to wait until this fucking scum has left! 24 00:02:40,793 --> 00:02:44,168 If I may quote: 25 00:02:44,335 --> 00:02:45,835 "Thou shalt recognize them by their works." 26 00:02:46,001 --> 00:02:48,043 That's what counts. 27 00:03:11,876 --> 00:03:15,126 Munich, 3 Elisabeth street 28 00:03:29,085 --> 00:03:30,918 How do you do, Mr. Herzog? 29 00:03:31,085 --> 00:03:34,335 Herr von der Recke, I hope you are prepared for this invasion. 30 00:03:34,501 --> 00:03:35,751 Oh yes, we are. 31 00:03:37,835 --> 00:03:41,835 You do know that this apartment has a very special meaning for me. 32 00:03:42,001 --> 00:03:45,001 As a 13-year-old schoolboy, I used to live here 33 00:03:45,210 --> 00:03:47,501 with my mother and my two brothers. 34 00:03:48,668 --> 00:03:52,043 This was a small, rather shabby boarding house, 35 00:03:52,210 --> 00:03:53,876 now restored, of course. 36 00:03:54,043 --> 00:03:55,751 That was in the '50s? 37 00:03:56,751 --> 00:04:00,418 I was just 13, and the odd thing about it was 38 00:04:00,585 --> 00:04:03,668 that I lived here with Klaus Kinski for three months. 39 00:04:03,835 --> 00:04:05,085 With Kinski? 40 00:04:07,251 --> 00:04:09,460 It was a chain of coincidences. 41 00:04:09,626 --> 00:04:12,293 The owner of the boarding house, Klara Rieth, 42 00:04:12,460 --> 00:04:17,668 an elderly lady about 65 with wildly-dyed orange hair 43 00:04:17,835 --> 00:04:21,126 had a soft spot for starving artists 44 00:04:21,335 --> 00:04:24,751 as she herself had come from a family of artists. 45 00:04:24,918 --> 00:04:28,168 and Kinski had been living nearby in an attic, without furniture, 46 00:04:28,335 --> 00:04:33,168 just bare beams, and he had covered everything knee-high with dead leaves, 47 00:04:33,335 --> 00:04:37,501 and posed as a starving artist and walked around stark-naked. 48 00:04:37,668 --> 00:04:38,501 Naked? 49 00:04:38,668 --> 00:04:40,126 Yes. When the postman rang, 50 00:04:40,293 --> 00:04:44,043 Kinski rustled through his leaves, stark-naked, and signed. 51 00:04:44,251 --> 00:04:45,585 And where was that? 52 00:04:46,376 --> 00:04:48,168 Somewhere nearby. 53 00:04:49,585 --> 00:04:52,460 Yeah, but he wore clothes, I hope, when he lived here? 54 00:04:53,001 --> 00:04:56,751 Yes, but from the very first moment, he terrorized everyone. 55 00:04:57,293 --> 00:04:59,626 There were eight parties living here. 56 00:04:59,876 --> 00:05:01,960 He locked himself into the bathroom. 57 00:05:02,585 --> 00:05:04,001 The bath over there? 58 00:05:04,501 --> 00:05:05,960 Wasn't there a door? 59 00:05:06,126 --> 00:05:08,710 Yes, there used to be a door that led to the bathroom. 60 00:05:08,918 --> 00:05:11,460 - May we? - Yes, please go ahead. 61 00:05:11,626 --> 00:05:13,960 This room to the left was bigger. 62 00:05:14,126 --> 00:05:17,126 Yes. We enlarged the bathroom here. 63 00:05:19,085 --> 00:05:22,501 That's where we used to live, my mother and the three boys. 64 00:05:22,668 --> 00:05:25,668 The four of us in just one single room. 65 00:05:26,251 --> 00:05:27,210 There were bunks. 66 00:05:27,376 --> 00:05:30,168 We were rather poor, and my mother tried somehow 67 00:05:30,335 --> 00:05:34,418 to take part in the economic miracle, but got left behind. 68 00:05:36,168 --> 00:05:42,085 And this bath here was smaller, of course, because our room reached up to here. 69 00:05:43,126 --> 00:05:46,043 And Kinski had locked himself in this bathroom 70 00:05:46,210 --> 00:05:50,043 for two days and two nights, for 49 hours. 71 00:05:50,251 --> 00:05:55,543 And in his fits of maniacal fury, he smashed everything to smithereens. 72 00:05:55,751 --> 00:05:58,501 The bathtub, the toilet bowl, everything. 73 00:05:58,710 --> 00:06:00,876 You could sift it through a tennis racket. 74 00:06:01,210 --> 00:06:03,543 But it was really incredible. 75 00:06:03,751 --> 00:06:08,585 I never thought it was possible that someone could rave for 49 hours. 76 00:06:09,251 --> 00:06:12,960 They called the police in the end, but they left him in peace. 77 00:06:21,085 --> 00:06:24,460 He was put up here, in a tiny staff room. 78 00:06:24,668 --> 00:06:28,501 - May I? - Yes, please, go ahead. 79 00:06:28,876 --> 00:06:32,085 It was completely different then. There was a long corridor. 80 00:06:32,793 --> 00:06:36,335 And here there were one, two, three small rooms. 81 00:06:36,501 --> 00:06:37,376 Yes. 82 00:06:39,626 --> 00:06:42,960 And here must have been a wall and an entrance. 83 00:06:43,376 --> 00:06:45,293 The corridor went along here. 84 00:06:46,168 --> 00:06:48,335 And this here was Kinski's room. 85 00:06:48,501 --> 00:06:51,960 There was only room for a bed and a small night table. 86 00:06:52,293 --> 00:06:55,918 And that was his window looking onto the backyard. 87 00:06:57,001 --> 00:07:02,710 And one day, Kinski must have taken a huge running start down the entire corridor. 88 00:07:02,918 --> 00:07:07,543 While we were eating, I heard a strange noise, and then, like an explosion, 89 00:07:07,710 --> 00:07:12,043 the whole door came flying off its hinges, and crashed into the room. 90 00:07:12,626 --> 00:07:15,501 Well he must have jumped against it full speed, 91 00:07:15,668 --> 00:07:18,085 and now he stood there, flailing wildly, 92 00:07:18,293 --> 00:07:21,668 completely hysterical, snow-white in his face. 93 00:07:22,376 --> 00:07:26,126 He was foaming at the mouth, and he moved like this. 94 00:07:26,293 --> 00:07:29,543 And the something came floating down like leaves... 95 00:07:29,710 --> 00:07:31,126 They were his shirts. 96 00:07:31,293 --> 00:07:34,085 And his screams were incredibly shrill. 97 00:07:34,293 --> 00:07:37,626 Well he could actually break wine glasses with his voice. 98 00:07:37,793 --> 00:07:41,460 And he screamed two octaves too high, he screamed, 99 00:07:41,626 --> 00:07:45,335 "Klara! Klara'. You pig!" 100 00:07:46,168 --> 00:07:50,293 The thing was, that she hadn't ironed his shirt collars neatly enough. 101 00:07:50,543 --> 00:07:54,668 Klara had him living here for free, fed him, and did his laundry. 102 00:07:56,460 --> 00:07:59,626 One day a theatre critic had been invited for dinner, 103 00:07:59,835 --> 00:08:04,001 and he hinted at having watched a play in which Kinski had a small roll. 104 00:08:04,168 --> 00:08:07,585 He would mention him as outstanding and extraordinary. 105 00:08:07,751 --> 00:08:13,335 And at once, Kinski threw two hot potatoes and the cutlery into his face, in a flash, 106 00:08:13,501 --> 00:08:15,543 and he jumped up and screamed, 107 00:08:16,001 --> 00:08:22,960 "I was not excellent! I was not extraordinary! 108 00:08:23,126 --> 00:08:28,251 "I was monumental! I was epochal!" 109 00:08:31,668 --> 00:08:34,918 Guess all this made a very deep impression on me then, 110 00:08:35,085 --> 00:08:39,918 and that I would work with him later and make five feature films with him, 111 00:08:41,835 --> 00:08:43,543 You would never have thought that. 112 00:08:43,751 --> 00:08:46,126 No, that was never on my horizon at the time. 113 00:08:46,293 --> 00:08:48,751 It was beyond my furthest thoughts. 114 00:08:49,251 --> 00:08:53,626 Was he a trained actor at the time he lived here? Did he ever have any training? 115 00:08:54,793 --> 00:08:56,168 He was self-taught. 116 00:08:56,335 --> 00:09:00,876 At times, you could hear him in his closet, for 10 hours non-stop, 117 00:09:01,043 --> 00:09:03,793 doing his voice and speaking exercises. 118 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,168 It was absolutely incredible. 119 00:09:08,418 --> 00:09:12,793 He always pretended to be a genius who had fallen straight from heaven 120 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,460 and who had obtained his gift by the grace of God. 121 00:09:16,668 --> 00:09:21,085 In reality, it was incredible how much he practiced and trained himself. 122 00:09:21,376 --> 00:09:24,168 At that time, during his poetry recitals, 123 00:09:24,335 --> 00:09:29,001 he still had this totally artificial theatre intonation of the '50s, 124 00:09:29,168 --> 00:09:31,585 a kind of a snorting snarl. 125 00:09:31,751 --> 00:09:33,751 He mastered it to perfection. 126 00:09:33,918 --> 00:09:35,793 And this is where I lived with him, 127 00:09:36,001 --> 00:09:38,960 and so knew what to expect if I was to work with him. 128 00:09:44,251 --> 00:09:46,751 In quicklime, 129 00:09:47,793 --> 00:09:52,210 in saltpeter, blazing phosphorous, 130 00:09:52,543 --> 00:09:56,668 in the urine of a donkey in heat, 131 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,751 in snakes' poison, old hags' spittle, 132 00:10:00,918 --> 00:10:05,876 in dog shit, and in foul bath-water, 133 00:10:06,043 --> 00:10:11,626 in wolf's milk, gall of oxen, and flooded latrines. 134 00:10:12,710 --> 00:10:15,668 In this juice, 135 00:10:16,626 --> 00:10:21,210 thou shalt stew the slanderers. 136 00:10:21,418 --> 00:10:24,668 In a tomcat's brain who ceased to fish, 137 00:10:24,835 --> 00:10:28,543 in the foam that dribbles from the teeth of rabid dogs, 138 00:10:28,710 --> 00:10:30,501 mixed with monkey's piss, 139 00:10:30,501 --> 00:10:33,210 in bristles from a hedgehog torn, 140 00:10:33,418 --> 00:10:36,543 in a rain barrel where vermin crawl, 141 00:10:36,543 --> 00:10:40,126 perished rats and the festering slime of toad-stools, 142 00:10:40,293 --> 00:10:47,418 glowing at night in horses' snot and in hot goo. 143 00:10:49,210 --> 00:10:51,585 In this juice, 144 00:10:52,418 --> 00:10:56,793 shall the slanderers stew... 145 00:11:00,001 --> 00:11:03,835 Peru, the train tracks along the Urubamba River... 146 00:11:04,001 --> 00:11:07,835 Kinski's and my river of destiny, so to speak. 147 00:11:08,001 --> 00:11:10,918 I wanted to retrace some of our steps. 148 00:11:12,126 --> 00:11:17,668 The first film we did together was "Aguirre, the Wrath of God", which started here. 149 00:11:18,168 --> 00:11:21,960 It was my sixth film, and I was 28 at the time. 150 00:11:22,626 --> 00:11:24,918 I had sent Kinski my screenplay, 151 00:11:25,085 --> 00:11:29,543 and two nights later, at 3:00 a.m., I was awakened by the phone. 152 00:11:29,710 --> 00:11:32,460 At first, I couldn't figure out what was going on. 153 00:11:32,626 --> 00:11:37,460 All I heard were inarticulate screams at the other end of the line. 154 00:11:37,835 --> 00:11:39,126 It was Kinski. 155 00:11:39,585 --> 00:11:44,710 After about half an hour, I could somewhat filter out from his screams, 156 00:11:44,918 --> 00:11:47,626 that he was ecstatic about the screenplay 157 00:11:47,793 --> 00:11:49,835 and wanted to be Aguirre. 158 00:11:56,210 --> 00:11:59,043 Right from the beginning of the shooting of "Aguirre," 159 00:11:59,210 --> 00:12:01,543 there were two pressing problems. 160 00:12:01,751 --> 00:12:03,293 One was the budget. AGUIRRE, THE WRATH OF GOD 161 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:05,710 Today, it seems inconceivable 162 00:12:05,876 --> 00:12:10,710 that we made the film with as little as $370,000. 163 00:12:11,001 --> 00:12:15,126 No one was interested in financing it, and what's more, 164 00:12:15,293 --> 00:12:19,626 later on, no one even wanted to see the film for years. 165 00:12:22,418 --> 00:12:24,501 Kinski was the next problem. 166 00:12:24,751 --> 00:12:28,626 At the time, he had just cut short a Jesus tour. 167 00:12:28,793 --> 00:12:33,376 He had appeared in huge arenas, in the Deutschlandhalle in Berlin, 168 00:12:33,543 --> 00:12:36,376 and the audience merely wanted to watch him rave. 169 00:12:36,543 --> 00:12:41,085 And he was laughed at, had terrible fits, and raved and screamed, 170 00:12:41,251 --> 00:12:46,210 and arrived here at our location as a derided, misunderstood Jesus. 171 00:12:47,251 --> 00:12:52,626 He had wholly identified with this role and continued to live on in it. 172 00:12:53,460 --> 00:12:59,335 Quite often, it was difficult to talk to him, because he answered back like Jesus. 173 00:13:05,001 --> 00:13:06,460 In his earlier phase, 174 00:13:06,668 --> 00:13:10,418 you could sometimes watch him in similar self-stylizations. 175 00:13:10,626 --> 00:13:13,918 As François Villon, the poor, vagrant poet. 176 00:13:14,126 --> 00:13:16,293 Then as Dostoyevsky's idiot, 177 00:13:16,501 --> 00:13:19,460 and later in his life, as Paganini. 178 00:13:24,585 --> 00:13:28,335 What is more, he had been fascinated by the screenplay, 179 00:13:28,543 --> 00:13:31,585 which had a different beginning from the finished film. 180 00:13:33,751 --> 00:13:36,626 In the script, there was a scene on a glacier 181 00:13:36,835 --> 00:13:39,835 where at an altitude of 17,000 feet, 182 00:13:40,043 --> 00:13:45,710 a huge procession of tottering, altitude-sick pigs advances towards you. 183 00:13:46,085 --> 00:13:48,293 Only later would you realize 184 00:13:48,501 --> 00:13:52,960 that this was part of a huge Spanish army of adventurers, 185 00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:57,626 accompanied by 800 or a 1,000 Indian auxiliaries. 186 00:13:58,626 --> 00:14:00,710 All this was cut from the script. 187 00:14:02,751 --> 00:14:06,835 Nevertheless, and although I had tried hard to dissuade him from it, 188 00:14:07,085 --> 00:14:12,793 Kinski had arrived with half a ton of alpine equipment, and expedition gear. 189 00:14:13,126 --> 00:14:18,293 He brought tents, down sleeping bags, crampons, and ice axes, 190 00:14:18,501 --> 00:14:22,376 and badly wanted to expose himself to wild nature, 191 00:14:25,043 --> 00:14:28,210 He had some rather insipid ideas about nature. 192 00:14:28,918 --> 00:14:33,543 Mosquitos were not allowed in his jungle, and rain was not allowed either. 193 00:14:34,168 --> 00:14:38,501 After establishing him in his tent around here, under that tree, 194 00:14:38,710 --> 00:14:41,210 it started to rain, and he got wet. 195 00:14:41,418 --> 00:14:45,960 So, he immediately had one of his raving fits during the first night. 196 00:14:46,501 --> 00:14:50,335 The next day, we built a roof of palm leaves above his tent. 197 00:14:52,001 --> 00:14:58,043 But even there he felt discomforted, and screaming he moved into the hotel of Machu Picchu. 198 00:15:00,043 --> 00:15:04,043 At the time, there was only one hotel with eight rooms. 199 00:15:04,251 --> 00:15:08,418 There was nothing far or wide. There was nothing here either, 200 00:15:08,626 --> 00:15:12,001 except for a single hut where I used to sleep. 201 00:15:12,543 --> 00:15:15,835 A woman lived there. She was a native Indian woman. 202 00:15:16,043 --> 00:15:18,793 A hunch-backed dwarf with nine children. 203 00:15:19,293 --> 00:15:24,876 She also had 100 or 150 guinea pigs, which were there to eat. 204 00:15:25,168 --> 00:15:29,126 But at night they crawled all over me, and that was uncomfortable. 205 00:15:29,668 --> 00:15:31,585 So, I moved in with the Indians. 206 00:15:31,793 --> 00:15:37,751 We had 450 Indians from the highlands, from the altitude of 15,000 feet, 207 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,168 who stayed in this big barn. 208 00:15:40,376 --> 00:15:44,585 You have to imagine, that in a radius of about 100 miles, 209 00:15:44,793 --> 00:15:48,126 no possibility of finding shelter existed. 210 00:15:48,585 --> 00:15:50,793 And I slept in there with them. 211 00:15:51,001 --> 00:15:55,210 And the last two days before shooting started were rather chaotic. 212 00:15:55,751 --> 00:15:57,251 I tried to establish some order, 213 00:15:57,460 --> 00:16:00,085 and worked straight through two days and nights. 214 00:16:00,585 --> 00:16:05,460 And finally, before going to sleep at dawn, for one hour, I told them, 215 00:16:05,668 --> 00:16:08,460 "Please wake me up when you take off in the train." 216 00:16:08,668 --> 00:16:10,168 But they forgot. 217 00:16:10,376 --> 00:16:13,960 I had been forgotten, and suddenly, in a white-hot panic, 218 00:16:14,168 --> 00:16:16,460 I realized the train was taking off. 219 00:16:16,668 --> 00:16:19,168 And I was fully dressed, apart from my shoes, 220 00:16:19,460 --> 00:16:22,043 and ran after the departing train, 221 00:16:22,251 --> 00:16:26,001 about 200 yards barefoot, across broken stone. 222 00:16:26,210 --> 00:16:30,251 And with bleeding feet, I barely reached a step and got on. 223 00:16:30,460 --> 00:16:35,376 And that was perhaps the most important shooting day I had in my life. 224 00:16:37,376 --> 00:16:40,918 When I finally arrived up here, there was a dense fog. 225 00:16:41,376 --> 00:16:45,210 Everything was clouded over, and it was pouring rain. 226 00:16:45,626 --> 00:16:49,418 You could only see as far as 100 feet at the most. 227 00:16:51,043 --> 00:16:54,460 The mountain back there was completely enshrouded in cloud. 228 00:16:54,668 --> 00:16:58,085 You couldn't see anything except gray clouds. 229 00:17:00,043 --> 00:17:02,460 And there was indescribable chaos. 230 00:17:05,168 --> 00:17:08,168 On top of that, there was a big problem with Kinski. 231 00:17:08,668 --> 00:17:10,668 It was twofold in nature. 232 00:17:10,876 --> 00:17:16,085 First of all, Kinski realized he would only be a dot in the landscape, 233 00:17:16,460 --> 00:17:18,710 and not the center of attention. 234 00:17:19,126 --> 00:17:22,751 He wanted to act in close-up to pass very near the camera, 235 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,293 with a grim face, leading the entire army. 236 00:17:26,876 --> 00:17:31,751 I tried to get across to him that he wasn't yet the leader of this expedition, 237 00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:35,335 for that was Pizarro, Gonzalo Pizarro. 238 00:17:38,168 --> 00:17:39,543 And it was very difficult, 239 00:17:39,751 --> 00:17:44,043 because Kinski simply was not the center of attention in this scene. 240 00:17:45,460 --> 00:17:49,835 Secondly, our concept of landscape differed profoundly. 241 00:17:52,376 --> 00:17:57,585 He wanted the shot to embrace all of scenic Machu Picchu, including the peak, 242 00:17:57,793 --> 00:18:00,251 just like a Hollywood-style movie, 243 00:18:00,460 --> 00:18:02,960 with the landscape as a beautiful backdrop, 244 00:18:03,376 --> 00:18:05,793 which is exploited for the scene. 245 00:18:07,376 --> 00:18:11,626 Commercials work that way. Postcards look like that. 246 00:18:11,918 --> 00:18:15,793 But I wanted an ecstatic detail of that landscape, 247 00:18:16,001 --> 00:18:21,376 where all the drama, all the passion, all human pathos became visible. 248 00:18:24,376 --> 00:18:29,126 He just didn't understand this, but for me, this was something crucial. 249 00:18:29,335 --> 00:18:33,960 This is to say, a landscape with almost human qualities. 250 00:18:37,001 --> 00:18:40,543 Kinski finally rose to the utmost platitude, 251 00:18:40,751 --> 00:18:46,085 that the only fascinating landscape on this earth was the human face. 252 00:18:47,376 --> 00:18:50,835 After that, I removed him from this shot. 253 00:18:52,043 --> 00:18:55,710 I also had the feeling that this scene without any faces 254 00:18:55,918 --> 00:18:59,710 would stick in the spectators' minds for a long time. 255 00:19:00,168 --> 00:19:03,710 And Kinski raved about my being a megalomaniac. 256 00:19:03,918 --> 00:19:07,960 And I answered him back, "That makes two of us!" 257 00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:17,960 And finally, towards 11 o'clock in the morning, everything opened up, 258 00:19:18,335 --> 00:19:23,918 and here, on the right-hand side, very strangely, the clouds stayed put, 259 00:19:24,126 --> 00:19:27,626 and to the left, like a miracle, they parted, 260 00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:31,168 and then the file of people came down here. 261 00:19:33,251 --> 00:19:37,210 And while we were shooting, I had a very profound feeling, 262 00:19:37,418 --> 00:19:41,085 as if the grace of God was with this film and with me. 263 00:19:41,751 --> 00:19:45,335 As if I were witnessing something extraordinary, 264 00:19:45,793 --> 00:19:47,835 which I would never see again. 265 00:19:51,126 --> 00:19:57,501 And I can perhaps say, that on this day I definitely came to know my own destiny. 266 00:20:27,418 --> 00:20:29,918 2,000 feet below Machu Picchu, 267 00:20:30,085 --> 00:20:32,626 the Urubamba flows around the Inka Site 268 00:20:32,835 --> 00:20:34,501 and the rocky peak nearby. 269 00:20:35,126 --> 00:20:38,335 During the dry season, the boulders are in the open, 270 00:20:38,543 --> 00:20:41,876 but the water can rise rapidly here by 40 feet. 271 00:20:50,251 --> 00:20:53,835 And this is what this same place looks like at high water. 272 00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:59,501 It seemed to me like a metaphor for our turbulent relationship. 273 00:21:00,251 --> 00:21:05,210 If you want someone to be agitated, let him be agitated! 274 00:21:05,710 --> 00:21:08,918 Fucking shoot! 275 00:21:09,126 --> 00:21:12,001 Let's shoot this shit! 276 00:21:12,210 --> 00:21:13,918 The camera won't roll now. 277 00:21:14,126 --> 00:21:15,876 It's an insult! 278 00:21:16,085 --> 00:21:20,501 You have to beg me! 279 00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:23,543 Even David Lean did that, and Brecht, too. 280 00:21:23,710 --> 00:21:25,835 You will do it as well, my dear! 281 00:21:26,001 --> 00:21:28,418 - I will not. - We shall see! 282 00:21:28,585 --> 00:21:32,043 - I will not do it. - We shall see! 283 00:21:34,335 --> 00:21:38,126 I couldn't care less what Brecht and David Lean did. 284 00:21:45,585 --> 00:21:49,335 What was the reason for inflicting this on myself? 285 00:21:50,418 --> 00:21:53,793 At age 15, I had seen Kinski in the anti-war film 286 00:21:54,001 --> 00:21:56,168 "Children, Mothers and a General." 287 00:21:56,501 --> 00:22:00,626 He played a lieutenant who leads schoolboys to the front. 288 00:22:03,251 --> 00:22:06,168 Maximilian Schell also plays a small part. 289 00:22:06,376 --> 00:22:09,001 He falls in love and wants to desert. 290 00:22:09,210 --> 00:22:12,376 Kinski will have him shot for that the next morning. 291 00:22:12,585 --> 00:22:15,751 Don't be afraid. I haven't seen a girl in three years. 292 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,710 Hey, you! Go away! 293 00:22:19,251 --> 00:22:20,835 The bastard. 294 00:22:21,251 --> 00:22:24,043 Are you coming? I will wait outside, okay? 295 00:22:25,793 --> 00:22:28,501 Do me this favor, please. 296 00:22:30,501 --> 00:22:32,751 The mothers of the boys and the soldiers 297 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:34,918 go to sleep for a few hours. 298 00:22:35,126 --> 00:22:37,293 Kinski's awakened at daybreak, 299 00:22:37,501 --> 00:22:41,001 and the way he wakes up will forever stay in my memory. 300 00:22:46,001 --> 00:22:47,293 Yes, we have to leave. 301 00:22:47,501 --> 00:22:51,418 This one moment, repeated here, impressed me so profoundly 302 00:22:51,626 --> 00:22:55,626 that later, it was a decisive factor in my professional life. 303 00:23:03,335 --> 00:23:05,001 Yes, we have to leave. 304 00:23:07,710 --> 00:23:09,376 Let's go, people! 305 00:23:10,043 --> 00:23:11,001 Now! 306 00:23:11,793 --> 00:23:15,668 Strange how memory can magnify something like that. 307 00:23:15,876 --> 00:23:20,001 The following scene, where he orders Maximilian Schell to be shot, 308 00:23:20,251 --> 00:23:23,043 seems much more impressive to me today. 309 00:23:27,335 --> 00:23:29,001 Now! 310 00:23:34,418 --> 00:23:36,001 Will he be shot? 311 00:23:36,501 --> 00:23:38,960 It's outrageous, you can't do this! 312 00:23:39,335 --> 00:23:41,710 You have to listen to him, at least. 313 00:23:42,126 --> 00:23:43,251 We beg you. 314 00:23:44,293 --> 00:23:48,960 But it's murder! It can't be decided like that! 315 00:23:49,168 --> 00:23:50,668 Lately, it can. 316 00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:53,001 Go on! 317 00:24:01,793 --> 00:24:03,710 Lima, the airport. 318 00:24:05,335 --> 00:24:09,085 On the traces of the past, I met Justo Gonzalez, 319 00:24:09,293 --> 00:24:13,293 who works here as a tourist guide and has been waiting for me. 320 00:24:14,085 --> 00:24:18,126 He was one of the Spanish soldiers from Aguirre's expedition. 321 00:24:18,460 --> 00:24:21,960 We hadn't seen each other for more than 25 years. 322 00:24:24,418 --> 00:24:31,418 [Spanish] 323 00:24:31,626 --> 00:24:35,793 February, 22. We are suffering terrible hardship. 324 00:24:36,501 --> 00:24:39,710 Most of the men have fever and hallucinate. 325 00:24:40,251 --> 00:24:42,626 Hardly anybody can still stand. 326 00:24:43,418 --> 00:24:47,835 Justo Gonzales drank my ink, thinking it was medicine. 327 00:24:49,126 --> 00:24:53,376 I can't write any more. We are drifting in circles. 328 00:25:06,835 --> 00:25:09,293 And here, at the left of the picture, 329 00:25:09,501 --> 00:25:15,918 Justo Gonzalez, then, in the role of a Spanish adventurer, exhausted by fever. 330 00:25:38,876 --> 00:25:40,501 In all scenes of the movie, 331 00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:43,293 Kinski had an intense aggressiveness, 332 00:25:43,876 --> 00:25:47,043 being at the same time cold-blooded and calculating. 333 00:25:47,751 --> 00:25:50,168 But in private, he seemed to be afraid of the jungle. 334 00:25:50,376 --> 00:25:52,793 He carried a rifle everywhere he went. 335 00:25:56,126 --> 00:25:59,835 In one of the scenes, we attacked an Indian village, which we burnt down, 336 00:26:00,043 --> 00:26:03,710 and Kinski assaulted the extras who were distracted by the food they found. 337 00:26:06,543 --> 00:26:09,876 He flailed wildly at us and hit my head with his sword. 338 00:26:10,835 --> 00:26:13,585 Luckily, my iron helmet protected me. 339 00:26:13,793 --> 00:26:16,793 And he hit so hard, he left a deep dent, 340 00:26:17,001 --> 00:26:20,251 so deep that I suffered a considerable wound on my head. 341 00:26:28,626 --> 00:26:31,835 I didn't lose consciousness, but suffered massive bleeding. 342 00:26:32,835 --> 00:26:35,210 [Spanish] 343 00:26:35,668 --> 00:26:38,626 And without your helmet, what would have happened? 344 00:26:38,918 --> 00:26:41,001 Without my helmet, he could have killed me. 345 00:26:41,501 --> 00:26:43,043 He would have split my skull. 346 00:26:44,126 --> 00:26:46,751 He was precise in aiming at my helmet, 347 00:26:47,168 --> 00:26:52,835 but at the same time, he was always impulsive, aggressive, out of control. 348 00:26:53,043 --> 00:26:56,460 [Spanish] 349 00:26:59,543 --> 00:27:00,918 And afterwards? 350 00:27:02,043 --> 00:27:06,585 Afterwards, this scar remained. It's still visible today. 351 00:27:14,626 --> 00:27:16,793 [Spanish] 352 00:27:17,001 --> 00:27:20,626 That same night, after shooting, we extras were relaxing. 353 00:27:21,126 --> 00:27:22,918 We drank a little and played cards. 354 00:27:23,835 --> 00:27:26,793 Klaus Kinski became irate and aggressive over this. 355 00:27:27,335 --> 00:27:30,126 Apparently, he wanted to show that he was a tough guy, 356 00:27:30,793 --> 00:27:34,085 and with his Winchester, he shot three bullets into our hut. 357 00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:38,835 We were 45 men crammed together in there, and he wounded one of us. 358 00:27:42,626 --> 00:27:44,293 He shot off his fingertip. 359 00:27:45,793 --> 00:27:47,210 There was so much blood 360 00:27:47,418 --> 00:27:50,626 that I was afraid at first that the man had been hit in the body, 361 00:27:51,418 --> 00:27:53,251 but it was only the middle finger. 362 00:27:53,460 --> 00:27:55,335 The extra's name was Araos. 363 00:27:55,543 --> 00:27:59,460 [Spanish] 364 00:27:59,668 --> 00:28:01,710 The trajectory of the bullets, 365 00:28:01,918 --> 00:28:05,585 did they penetrate the thatched roof diagonally from above 366 00:28:05,793 --> 00:28:07,501 and from there into the floor? 367 00:28:08,168 --> 00:28:10,751 No, he shot straight through the wall. 368 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:11,960 [Spanish] 369 00:28:12,168 --> 00:28:13,501 He hated everybody. 370 00:28:14,626 --> 00:28:18,918 He was impulsive, unpredictable, half-mad. 371 00:28:19,126 --> 00:28:21,043 He was not quite normal. 372 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,710 Aggressive. He had a diabolical character. 373 00:28:26,918 --> 00:28:28,626 He always went around armed. 374 00:28:30,043 --> 00:28:33,960 [Spanish] 375 00:28:34,168 --> 00:28:35,793 One day, you threatened him with death. 376 00:28:36,001 --> 00:28:38,001 You couldn't take it any longer, 377 00:28:38,418 --> 00:28:42,793 when he wanted to walk out before the end of shooting, in the middle of work. 378 00:28:43,710 --> 00:28:45,543 A lot of scenes were still missing. 379 00:28:46,543 --> 00:28:49,710 And how many sacrifices had we made? 380 00:28:50,126 --> 00:28:52,751 [Spanish] 381 00:28:57,710 --> 00:29:01,793 A few days journey from Machu Picchu, down the Urubamba river. 382 00:29:03,210 --> 00:29:07,418 Here, at this narrow point, at the rapids of the Pongo de Mainique, 383 00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:10,126 we shot parts of "Fitzcarraldo". 384 00:29:11,918 --> 00:29:15,626 During the dry season, with the water at its lowest level, 385 00:29:15,835 --> 00:29:17,793 this is quite harmless. 386 00:29:38,543 --> 00:29:43,543 Kinski was a peculiar mixture of physical cowardice and physical courage. 387 00:29:44,460 --> 00:29:49,418 Sometimes, when there was merely a wasp nearby, he screamed for his mosquito net, 388 00:29:49,626 --> 00:29:52,001 and for a doctor ready with a syringe. 389 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,960 But I shall never forget one moment, and that was here in the Pongo, 390 00:29:57,168 --> 00:29:59,251 almost exactly at this point. 391 00:29:59,835 --> 00:30:02,876 We had managed to drag our huge ship up to here, 392 00:30:03,085 --> 00:30:05,710 inch by inch, against the current. 393 00:30:06,168 --> 00:30:10,293 You have to imagine that the water rises 30 feet higher here, 394 00:30:10,585 --> 00:30:12,835 and then all hell breaks loose. 395 00:30:13,585 --> 00:30:18,376 Both to the right and to the left, we had fastened thick steel cables to the rock, 396 00:30:18,585 --> 00:30:22,335 so that the boat was able to pull itself up with the winches. 397 00:30:26,168 --> 00:30:28,085 All that took about 11 days, 398 00:30:28,335 --> 00:30:31,751 just to pull the boat half a mile into these rapids. 399 00:30:32,126 --> 00:30:34,710 And then something unexpected happened. 400 00:30:35,210 --> 00:30:37,210 The water rose another 6 feet, 401 00:30:37,460 --> 00:30:42,835 and the 14 steel cables that held the boat, each with a diameter of 3 inches, 402 00:30:43,043 --> 00:30:45,543 were torn up with a single jerk. 403 00:30:49,126 --> 00:30:51,460 That was good. Watch out. 404 00:30:51,626 --> 00:30:53,126 Good timing. 405 00:30:59,335 --> 00:31:03,876 The boat at once lurched crosswise in the river and started capsizing, 406 00:31:04,085 --> 00:31:07,293 and it lay almost horizontally in the water. 407 00:31:07,501 --> 00:31:11,793 And the bizarre thing was, that there was a pregnant woman on board, 408 00:31:12,001 --> 00:31:14,418 the cook's wife, and the cook himself. 409 00:31:14,626 --> 00:31:17,251 And he, in mortal fear, looking for something vertical, 410 00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:20,168 jumped on half a pig, that was dangling there, 411 00:31:20,376 --> 00:31:23,585 and clutched it and went swinging on this pig. 412 00:31:23,835 --> 00:31:27,460 Later on, he had to endure some jokes about this, of course. 413 00:31:29,126 --> 00:31:31,168 Kinski knew about this incident. 414 00:31:31,376 --> 00:31:34,668 We did some shooting here, without any crew on board, 415 00:31:34,876 --> 00:31:38,293 and the boat was hurled into the rocks with such an impact 416 00:31:38,501 --> 00:31:42,918 that the keel, the whole front part, was wrapped around itself 417 00:31:43,126 --> 00:31:47,085 like the lid of a sardine tin that is coiled up. 418 00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:50,710 The anchor had penetrated the thick metal wall. 419 00:31:52,251 --> 00:31:55,293 And everyone knew it, including Kinski. 420 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:02,001 I then thought we should perhaps shoot with a couple of cameras on board. and a few people. 421 00:32:02,918 --> 00:32:06,710 We had six volunteers, and suddenly Kinski said, 422 00:32:06,918 --> 00:32:09,918 "If you go on board, I'm coming with you. 423 00:32:10,418 --> 00:32:13,126 "If you sink, I shall sink, too." 424 00:32:33,460 --> 00:32:36,293 Look, you can stop it again... 425 00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:42,876 At the beginning. 426 00:32:43,043 --> 00:32:45,543 This is a real gramophone needle? 427 00:32:45,710 --> 00:32:49,126 No, that's a normal sewing needle. 428 00:32:52,335 --> 00:32:55,710 It's not playing any music. 429 00:33:01,418 --> 00:33:03,043 - Paul. - Yes? 430 00:33:03,543 --> 00:33:05,210 - Good luck. - Okay. 431 00:33:05,418 --> 00:33:07,251 - Take care. - You too. 432 00:33:07,710 --> 00:33:10,376 If you fall off, I'll catch you. 433 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,918 What happened? 434 00:33:16,043 --> 00:33:17,418 Pongo! 435 00:33:17,585 --> 00:33:19,751 We're drifting through the Pongo! 436 00:33:30,251 --> 00:33:34,085 While we were shooting, one of the impacts was so violent 437 00:33:34,293 --> 00:33:37,751 that I remember seeing the lens shoot out of the camera. 438 00:33:39,918 --> 00:33:45,460 It flew off, and the cameraman, Thomas Mauch and I, I tried holding him. 439 00:33:45,626 --> 00:33:49,043 He flew 25 or 30 feet through the air with me. 440 00:33:50,001 --> 00:33:52,585 And the camera weighs about 40 pounds. 441 00:33:52,835 --> 00:33:54,501 He held it on his shoulder. 442 00:33:54,751 --> 00:34:00,085 It hit the deck so hard that his hand was split apart between these two fingers. 443 00:34:02,293 --> 00:34:03,876 What a pity, Klaus... 444 00:34:04,043 --> 00:34:08,085 What a pity, Klaus, that you ran away before the boat struck. 445 00:34:08,251 --> 00:34:13,085 But that was the idea! I'm not an idiot! 446 00:34:13,251 --> 00:34:19,876 This lens here flew off. 447 00:34:20,043 --> 00:34:23,293 That was the idea! 448 00:34:25,460 --> 00:34:29,418 The rock came even closer. 449 00:34:29,585 --> 00:34:32,460 I ran back screaming, "The engine!" 450 00:34:32,626 --> 00:34:34,460 Then came the impact, and you flew. 451 00:34:34,626 --> 00:34:36,126 Perfect timing. 452 00:34:57,626 --> 00:35:03,501 There were moments, too, when Kinski instinctively knew that he went too far. 453 00:35:04,293 --> 00:35:08,376 And in moments like that, he was a coward, thank God. 454 00:35:10,626 --> 00:35:13,418 There was an incident at Rio Nanay, 455 00:35:13,626 --> 00:35:16,835 that was in the last phase of the shooting of "Aguirre". 456 00:35:18,293 --> 00:35:20,668 As so often, he didn't know his lines, 457 00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:25,376 and in a situation like this, he would always look for a victim. 458 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,501 And suddenly, he screamed like mad, "You pig!", 459 00:35:29,710 --> 00:35:31,543 meaning the assistant cameraman. 460 00:35:31,710 --> 00:35:32,876 "He grinned!" 461 00:35:33,043 --> 00:35:35,668 And I was supposed to fire him at once. 462 00:35:35,876 --> 00:35:39,251 And I said, no, of course I will not fire him, 463 00:35:39,460 --> 00:35:42,710 or else the whole team would leave with him in solidarity. 464 00:35:44,001 --> 00:35:48,126 And he suddenly packed his things in absolute dead earnest, 465 00:35:48,418 --> 00:35:53,585 resolved to go and leave our location, and he packed everything in a speedboat. 466 00:35:53,793 --> 00:35:57,876 And I knew he had broken 30, 40, 50 contracts before this. 467 00:35:58,251 --> 00:36:01,043 Only shortly before he had broken up a tour. 468 00:36:01,251 --> 00:36:06,918 He had brought theatre engagements to ruin before, and I knew now he's leaving for good. 469 00:36:08,168 --> 00:36:12,918 And I went up to him, very composed. By the way, I was not armed. 470 00:36:13,210 --> 00:36:16,876 Later on, he tried to change things around to save face. 471 00:36:18,501 --> 00:36:22,043 I went up to him and I said, "You can't do this. 472 00:36:22,251 --> 00:36:25,710 "The movie is more important than our personal emotions, 473 00:36:25,918 --> 00:36:29,001 "and even more important than our persons, 474 00:36:29,210 --> 00:36:30,960 "and this can't be permitted. 475 00:36:31,126 --> 00:36:33,835 "This simply will not be." 476 00:36:34,585 --> 00:36:36,918 And he said, "No, I'm leaving now". 477 00:36:37,585 --> 00:36:40,835 And I told him I had a rifle, not on me, 478 00:36:41,043 --> 00:36:43,960 but by the time he reached the next bend in the river, 479 00:36:44,168 --> 00:36:46,501 there would be eight bullets in his head, 480 00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:49,043 and the ninth one would be mine. 481 00:36:51,501 --> 00:36:55,835 And he had enough instinct to know that this wasn't a joke anymore. 482 00:36:56,460 --> 00:37:00,126 And then he screamed for the police like a madman. 483 00:37:01,251 --> 00:37:06,001 However, the next police station was at least 300 miles away. 484 00:37:06,335 --> 00:37:08,668 Later, it was circulated in the press 485 00:37:08,876 --> 00:37:13,001 that I directed him from behind the camera with a loaded rifle. 486 00:37:13,418 --> 00:37:15,293 Of course, this wasn't true, 487 00:37:15,501 --> 00:37:18,960 but he was very docile during the last days of shooting, 488 00:37:19,168 --> 00:37:20,960 and very, very disciplined. 489 00:37:21,168 --> 00:37:24,210 Somehow the beast had been domesticated after all, 490 00:37:24,418 --> 00:37:29,751 and had been pressed into shape, so that his true madness, his true energy 491 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,668 was contained within the frame of a screen image. 492 00:37:35,293 --> 00:37:39,126 And I thank his cowardice, and his instincts, 493 00:37:39,335 --> 00:37:42,001 for a magnificent ending of "Aguirre." 494 00:37:49,793 --> 00:37:52,418 When we reach the sea, 495 00:37:52,585 --> 00:37:55,168 we'll build a bigger boat, 496 00:37:55,335 --> 00:38:01,543 and we'll sail north and take Trinidad away from the Spanish Crown. 497 00:38:07,710 --> 00:38:14,418 From there, we'll go on and take Mexico from Cortez. 498 00:38:15,210 --> 00:38:18,876 What a great betrayal that will be. 499 00:38:19,835 --> 00:38:23,626 We will then control all of New Spain, 500 00:38:23,793 --> 00:38:31,210 and we will stage history as others stage plays. 501 00:38:47,460 --> 00:38:52,043 I, the Wrath of God, 502 00:38:52,210 --> 00:38:56,251 will marry my own daughter, 503 00:38:56,460 --> 00:39:00,626 and with her found the purest dynasty 504 00:39:00,793 --> 00:39:03,626 ever known to man. 505 00:39:03,793 --> 00:39:06,168 Together, 506 00:39:06,335 --> 00:39:10,460 we will rule the whole of this continent. 507 00:39:17,418 --> 00:39:19,501 We will endure. 508 00:39:21,335 --> 00:39:24,418 I am the Wrath of God. 509 00:39:25,710 --> 00:39:28,418 Who else is with me? 510 00:39:37,751 --> 00:39:39,043 I was with him. 511 00:39:39,251 --> 00:39:42,418 Kinski and I complemented each other in a strange way. 512 00:39:42,626 --> 00:39:46,376 I think he needed me just as much as I needed him. 513 00:39:46,585 --> 00:39:49,126 Only in public, he could never admit it. 514 00:39:49,376 --> 00:39:51,210 It bothered him very, very much. 515 00:39:51,418 --> 00:39:56,210 And in his autobiography, which is, of course, to a high degree fictitious, 516 00:39:56,418 --> 00:39:59,043 he describes me, our relationship. 517 00:39:59,251 --> 00:40:01,210 I shall read some of it. 518 00:40:05,251 --> 00:40:10,085 He speaks of Herzog's "derangement, insolence, impudence, brutality, 519 00:40:10,293 --> 00:40:15,043 dimwittedness, megalomania, lack of talent," it goes on like that. 520 00:40:15,293 --> 00:40:19,460 And he continuous, "Any further elaboration would be a waste of time." 521 00:40:20,418 --> 00:40:24,126 Nevertheless, page after page, he comes back to me, 522 00:40:24,335 --> 00:40:27,043 almost like an obsessive compulsion. 523 00:40:27,460 --> 00:40:32,585 This book, in some parts of it, in some passages, I kind of had a hand in them. 524 00:40:32,793 --> 00:40:36,793 I helped him to invent particularly vile expletives. 525 00:40:37,293 --> 00:40:39,918 He lived near here, a little higher up, 526 00:40:40,126 --> 00:40:41,793 and we often walked along here. 527 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,460 Sometimes we sat on a wooden bench, 528 00:40:44,668 --> 00:40:47,585 at a wooden table, looking over the landscape, 529 00:40:47,793 --> 00:40:50,918 or we sat by this tree, musing, and he said, 530 00:40:51,126 --> 00:40:56,835 "Werner, nobody will read this book if I don't write very bad stuff about you. 531 00:40:57,585 --> 00:41:01,751 "If I wrote that we get along very well together, nobody would buy it. 532 00:41:02,085 --> 00:41:06,085 "The scum only wants to hear about the dirt all the time." 533 00:41:06,751 --> 00:41:11,793 And I came with a dictionary and we tried to find even fouler expressions. 534 00:41:12,126 --> 00:41:15,751 He did use some of them, and we often laughed about it. 535 00:41:16,126 --> 00:41:20,876 And yet, a lot of these outbreaks of hatred were certainly authentic. 536 00:41:21,293 --> 00:41:23,376 And this applies to both of us. 537 00:41:24,168 --> 00:41:27,085 Nevertheless, we worked together again. 538 00:42:02,085 --> 00:42:05,835 "Woyzeck" was shot in the small Czech town of Telč. 539 00:42:06,293 --> 00:42:10,293 Eva Mattes was Kinski's partner, in the role of Marie. 540 00:42:11,043 --> 00:42:16,043 She was one of the very few women who had anything good to say about Kinski. 541 00:42:19,751 --> 00:42:23,085 There, under those arches, we shot quite a lot. 542 00:42:23,668 --> 00:42:25,793 And on the square out there, too. 543 00:42:31,168 --> 00:42:36,376 At the time, Kinski had arrived quite exhausted from the shooting of "Nosferatu." 544 00:42:36,751 --> 00:42:39,126 We had only five days in between. 545 00:42:39,668 --> 00:42:41,710 He was able to grow some stubbles, 546 00:42:41,918 --> 00:42:46,418 and he was in a peculiar, fragile, and sensitive mood. 547 00:42:47,543 --> 00:42:51,210 How would you describe him? He was different with you. 548 00:42:58,085 --> 00:43:03,626 Well yes, that kind of exhaustion can stimulate you to reach rare heights. 549 00:43:04,585 --> 00:43:07,043 And he was a very professional actor, 550 00:43:07,251 --> 00:43:09,460 the most professional I have ever known. 551 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,918 And he certainly exploited this, this fragility you just mentioned just now, 552 00:43:14,585 --> 00:43:17,126 which is almost like a gift for Woyzeck, 553 00:43:17,335 --> 00:43:20,585 if you bring it with you in such a moment of exhaustion. 554 00:43:21,710 --> 00:43:25,210 I respected him totally, but it was mutual. 555 00:43:26,251 --> 00:43:29,543 And of course, I was anxiously looking forward to working with him, 556 00:43:29,751 --> 00:43:32,126 because I knew him to be a mad actor. 557 00:43:34,251 --> 00:43:38,376 And I got to know him as a powerhouse you just had to plug into. 558 00:43:42,335 --> 00:43:44,626 Do you know how long it has been, Marie? 559 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,168 Two years this Whitsuntide. 560 00:43:50,043 --> 00:43:52,626 And do you know how long it will be? 561 00:43:55,710 --> 00:43:58,251 I have to go and prepare supper. 562 00:43:59,585 --> 00:44:02,376 - You two were not merely actors. - That's right. 563 00:44:02,585 --> 00:44:05,793 - It was more. - Yes, but what can I say? 564 00:44:06,626 --> 00:44:10,543 There was a strong intuition. He was a terribly intuitive actor. 565 00:44:10,751 --> 00:44:12,210 And I am the same. 566 00:44:13,460 --> 00:44:17,043 There is a scene in "Woyzeck" where Woyzeck says to Marie, 567 00:44:17,626 --> 00:44:20,335 "You have such a beautiful mouth and no blister on it." 568 00:44:20,543 --> 00:44:26,960 And the next day, after we had shot that scene, I had a white blister in the middle of my lip. 569 00:44:27,168 --> 00:44:32,085 And never before in my life did I have a blister on my lip and never again. 570 00:44:33,168 --> 00:44:36,793 He saw it the following day, and of course made some vulgar jokes about it. 571 00:44:37,210 --> 00:44:39,085 But the whole thing was very strange. 572 00:44:40,126 --> 00:44:43,376 And there was somehow a great intensity between us, 573 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,460 or rather, he had it, and I had it perhaps. 574 00:44:47,001 --> 00:44:48,876 And I can't describe it any further. 575 00:44:55,710 --> 00:44:57,918 The situation in the film is the following: 576 00:44:58,126 --> 00:45:00,793 Marie has an affair with a drum major. 577 00:45:01,001 --> 00:45:04,585 And Woyzeck, drifting towards insanity, 578 00:45:04,793 --> 00:45:06,918 has reason to be suspicious. 579 00:45:07,668 --> 00:45:11,043 This scene, like almost everything in "Woyzeck," 580 00:45:11,251 --> 00:45:14,085 was filmed in a single take, without a cut. 581 00:45:31,210 --> 00:45:33,085 It's still you. 582 00:45:35,876 --> 00:45:37,460 Indeed. 583 00:45:40,043 --> 00:45:42,210 No, I can't see it. 584 00:45:42,418 --> 00:45:46,418 You look so strange, Franz. I'm scared. 585 00:45:47,543 --> 00:45:49,876 I see nothing. 586 00:45:53,043 --> 00:45:55,376 I see nothing. 587 00:45:58,585 --> 00:46:00,085 One should see it, 588 00:46:00,251 --> 00:46:02,460 one should be able to grab it with his fists'. 589 00:46:02,626 --> 00:46:05,876 What is it, Franz? You're insane! 590 00:46:06,043 --> 00:46:08,210 A lot of people walk the street, right? 591 00:46:08,418 --> 00:46:11,668 You talk to anyone, what do I care? 592 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:15,918 Did he stand here? 593 00:46:16,876 --> 00:46:18,585 There, yes? 594 00:46:19,126 --> 00:46:20,876 There? 595 00:46:22,501 --> 00:46:24,585 Did he do this? 596 00:46:26,001 --> 00:46:27,543 I wish I would have been him! 597 00:46:27,710 --> 00:46:30,668 Him! I can't forbid people to walk the street 598 00:46:30,835 --> 00:46:33,835 and tell them to leave their mouth at home! 599 00:46:34,001 --> 00:46:36,460 Leave the lips at home... 600 00:46:36,626 --> 00:46:40,126 They're so beautiful, it would be a shame. 601 00:46:40,293 --> 00:46:43,835 But the wasps like to land on them. 602 00:46:46,835 --> 00:46:49,043 And which wasp has stung you? 603 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,668 A sin, so full and wide. 604 00:46:52,876 --> 00:46:59,585 It stinks, fit to smoke the angels out of heaven. 605 00:47:04,168 --> 00:47:10,251 You have a red mouth, Marie, and not a blister on it. 606 00:47:10,460 --> 00:47:12,835 - Franz, your fever is talking! - I saw him! 607 00:47:13,001 --> 00:47:16,543 You can see a lot with two good eyes and the sun shining! 608 00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:19,960 Did he stand here? Like that? Like that? 609 00:47:20,126 --> 00:47:22,543 When the day is long and the world old, 610 00:47:22,543 --> 00:47:24,960 a lot of people can be in one place or another. 611 00:47:25,126 --> 00:47:26,085 Hit me, Franz! 612 00:47:26,251 --> 00:47:29,126 I'd rather have a knife in my body than your hand on me! 613 00:47:43,501 --> 00:47:45,293 No. 614 00:47:47,710 --> 00:47:50,793 There should be a sign on her. 615 00:47:51,793 --> 00:47:54,626 There should be a sign on her. 616 00:47:56,043 --> 00:47:58,835 Every man is an abyss. 617 00:47:59,918 --> 00:48:02,960 You get dizzy looking in. 618 00:48:05,210 --> 00:48:08,418 Innocence, there's a mark on you. 619 00:48:10,043 --> 00:48:11,126 Do I know? 620 00:48:12,460 --> 00:48:13,960 Do I know? 621 00:48:16,126 --> 00:48:18,043 Who does know? 622 00:48:29,251 --> 00:48:31,460 I didn't know him, privately, so to speak, 623 00:48:31,668 --> 00:48:37,001 but the little bit that was revealed during shooting was very personal and very friendly. 624 00:48:40,835 --> 00:48:45,751 During the last day of shooting, for instance, I think we took a group photo of the whole team. 625 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,335 And I was very sad that shooting was over. 626 00:48:49,418 --> 00:48:50,418 Yes, you cried. 627 00:48:50,751 --> 00:48:53,668 And I left early because I couldn't keep from sobbing. 628 00:48:54,418 --> 00:48:56,918 And all of a sudden, I heard steps behind me, 629 00:48:57,126 --> 00:48:59,376 and then someone said, "Wait a moment." 630 00:48:59,585 --> 00:49:03,293 And it was Kinski, and he took me in his arms, and he said, 631 00:49:03,501 --> 00:49:06,210 "Eva, I know exactly how you feel." 632 00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:09,793 And that was so wonderful. It did me a lot of good. 633 00:49:10,001 --> 00:49:12,585 I really needed that, and he was there. 634 00:49:12,793 --> 00:49:14,335 He went to the hotel with me, 635 00:49:14,543 --> 00:49:18,501 holding me in his arms the entire time, and he knew, he simply knew. 636 00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:24,626 And when I got to Cannes, I received, I guess erroneously or whatever, 637 00:49:25,418 --> 00:49:27,085 No, you deserved it! 638 00:49:27,668 --> 00:49:31,085 ...this prize. I received it and not Klaus. 639 00:49:31,293 --> 00:49:33,043 I went to him and said, 640 00:49:33,251 --> 00:49:35,918 "Well, what do you think about my getting this prize?" 641 00:49:36,460 --> 00:49:42,585 And he said, "Eva, I think only of that walk we took together 642 00:49:42,793 --> 00:49:46,251 from the location to the hotel, when you cried so." 643 00:49:48,376 --> 00:49:50,043 And I think that was great. 644 00:49:50,293 --> 00:49:54,335 And he was there, sitting in the audience, and he applauded me, 645 00:49:54,543 --> 00:49:58,335 and he said, "Finally you are wearing a gorgeous dress!" 646 00:49:58,543 --> 00:50:00,335 And that was simply fine. 647 00:50:01,001 --> 00:50:03,335 Yes, I had told him beforehand. 648 00:50:03,710 --> 00:50:08,876 If they do give a prize, it would have to be a joint one, for him, as well. 649 00:50:09,876 --> 00:50:13,210 And he said, "I don't care about that scum! 650 00:50:13,418 --> 00:50:18,710 "Why should I receive a prize? I know that I'm a genius!" 651 00:50:21,418 --> 00:50:24,876 And on and on, and I said, "Well, we all know that. 652 00:50:25,085 --> 00:50:29,001 "And you never need to get a prize, and a prize just compromises you, 653 00:50:29,210 --> 00:50:34,793 and cheapens you and drags you to the same level of the media people, the whole circus." 654 00:50:35,001 --> 00:50:39,751 And that did him a lot of good, and he was very, very loving with me then, 655 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,960 and he kissed me on the mouth and held me for a long time 656 00:50:44,168 --> 00:50:47,210 and was all broken up and very deeply touched. 657 00:50:49,210 --> 00:50:52,335 There were quite a few moments like that between us. 658 00:50:55,126 --> 00:51:01,126 I always find it difficult to explain that he also possessed great human warmth, 659 00:51:02,168 --> 00:51:03,376 He did, yes. 660 00:51:03,585 --> 00:51:08,085 ...which abruptly, as with a wild bear, could turn into violence, 661 00:51:08,293 --> 00:51:11,543 and rage of unimaginable proportions. 662 00:51:14,585 --> 00:51:21,460 You won't tell me whether I can scream or not! 663 00:51:21,626 --> 00:51:23,085 You can lick my ass! 664 00:51:23,251 --> 00:51:25,210 I'm going to smack your face! 665 00:51:25,418 --> 00:51:26,543 What? 666 00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:29,210 - You can count on it! - Go ahead. 667 00:51:29,418 --> 00:51:35,460 - You can count on it! - Go ahead. Just try it. 668 00:51:35,668 --> 00:51:38,335 - Mouth off, I'll kick your ass! - Just try it. 669 00:51:38,543 --> 00:51:40,960 This quarrel here, filmed as an aside, 670 00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:44,626 was with our capable production manager, Walter Saxer. 671 00:51:44,835 --> 00:51:48,210 By some rare chance, I was not the brunt of it this time. 672 00:51:48,418 --> 00:51:51,251 I don't give a shit about your jerking off with your friendship! 673 00:51:51,460 --> 00:51:54,085 We need a photographer, do you understand?! 674 00:51:54,293 --> 00:51:56,168 Go on with your shit! 675 00:51:56,376 --> 00:52:00,501 The cause was trivial, and I myself, at the right of the picture, 676 00:52:00,710 --> 00:52:03,251 didn't bother to interfere, because Kinski, 677 00:52:03,460 --> 00:52:07,043 compared with his previous outbreaks, seemed rather mild. 678 00:52:07,251 --> 00:52:08,168 Take care of your own things'. You have enough to do! 679 00:52:08,376 --> 00:52:12,001 I simply continued working at setting up for the next scene. 680 00:52:12,918 --> 00:52:16,501 - Fine, you won't get anymore. - Pig's slop's what it is! 681 00:52:16,501 --> 00:52:18,460 - You don't have to eat it. - You fucking idiot! 682 00:52:18,626 --> 00:52:20,626 - You don't have to eat it. - What are you saying?! 683 00:52:20,793 --> 00:52:22,085 Eat what you want. 684 00:52:22,251 --> 00:52:28,043 Worse than prison! Don't tell me what to eat! 685 00:52:28,210 --> 00:52:31,418 - None for you. - He's mad! 686 00:52:31,585 --> 00:52:35,960 He's mad! Take this piece of shit away! 687 00:52:36,585 --> 00:52:40,251 No more for you. You can eat your own shit. 688 00:52:40,460 --> 00:52:45,751 A lunatic, belongs in an asylum! A madman! He's mad, an idiot! 689 00:52:45,918 --> 00:52:47,085 He's mad. 690 00:52:47,251 --> 00:52:50,210 You should be locked up because you're not normal anymore. 691 00:52:50,418 --> 00:52:52,293 Idiot. 692 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:58,418 I'm not done with you yet, you stupid pig. 693 00:52:58,626 --> 00:53:02,876 How can you let such an asshole run your production? 694 00:53:03,085 --> 00:53:08,043 You don't exist for me! 695 00:53:08,251 --> 00:53:11,876 You better behave like a human being here. 696 00:53:12,043 --> 00:53:16,543 This is outrageous. It's unbelievable. 697 00:53:16,710 --> 00:53:21,835 Lick my ass, man! We're making a movie'. 698 00:53:22,001 --> 00:53:25,960 We'll send you to the place you belong, you idiot! 699 00:53:26,168 --> 00:53:28,168 Don't touch me! You bother me! 700 00:53:28,376 --> 00:53:32,918 These ravings were really frightening, a real problem for the Indians, 701 00:53:33,126 --> 00:53:36,710 who solve their conflicts in a totally different manner. 702 00:53:42,043 --> 00:53:47,210 You're so stupid that you're not aware of the consequences. 703 00:53:47,418 --> 00:53:50,668 I don't care about your consequences. 704 00:53:50,835 --> 00:53:52,543 You don't fucking care about anything! 705 00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:55,085 You don't fucking care about the people! 706 00:53:55,251 --> 00:53:57,460 I don't care about your fucking tantrums. 707 00:53:57,626 --> 00:53:59,668 You don't fucking care about the people! 708 00:53:59,835 --> 00:54:04,793 Nobody can eat this pig food'. Nobody can be so stupid'. 709 00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,085 Don't eat it. 710 00:54:06,251 --> 00:54:07,543 You have to be an asshole to do it! 711 00:54:07,710 --> 00:54:08,668 You don't have to eat it. 712 00:54:08,835 --> 00:54:11,543 Do you understand? I'm leaving! 713 00:54:11,710 --> 00:54:13,501 This is outrageous! 714 00:54:13,501 --> 00:54:15,835 "You don't have to eat it," he says. 715 00:54:16,001 --> 00:54:20,751 - It's unbelievable. - Come on, let's drop it. 716 00:54:20,918 --> 00:54:23,293 Tell him to shut up. 717 00:54:23,460 --> 00:54:24,960 Come on, just leave it alone, you two. 718 00:54:25,126 --> 00:54:28,085 Walter, you too. 719 00:54:28,251 --> 00:54:31,418 [German} 720 00:54:31,585 --> 00:54:36,543 It's not normal, you idiot! Every day! 721 00:54:36,543 --> 00:54:39,918 One of you should have the nerve to stop this. 722 00:54:40,085 --> 00:54:43,460 Let's start shooting. 723 00:54:43,626 --> 00:54:48,168 We need more preparation. I'd like to rehearse again. 724 00:54:48,335 --> 00:54:54,210 All right, Klaus, I'd like to show you what I have in mind. 725 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:13,501 Kinski's raving fits strained things with our Indian extras. 726 00:55:14,460 --> 00:55:18,751 They were Machiguengas, these two here, and a lot of Campas, too. 727 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:24,001 Normally, they speak very carefully, very, very softly, 728 00:55:25,460 --> 00:55:28,126 and physical contacts are very gentle. 729 00:55:28,543 --> 00:55:30,751 And they were obviously afraid. 730 00:55:31,251 --> 00:55:35,876 They would sit around in a circle, huddled together, whispering. 731 00:55:51,710 --> 00:55:55,460 And towards the end of shooting, one of the chiefs came to me and said, 732 00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,918 "You probably realized that we were afraid, 733 00:55:59,126 --> 00:56:02,210 "but don't think for one moment that were we scared 734 00:56:02,418 --> 00:56:05,793 "of that screaming madman, who was shouting his head off." 735 00:56:06,585 --> 00:56:10,085 They were actually afraid of me because I was so quiet. 736 00:56:13,126 --> 00:56:15,126 I believe that Kinski's fits 737 00:56:15,335 --> 00:56:18,835 can partly be explained by his egocentric character. 738 00:56:22,001 --> 00:56:24,876 Egocentric is perhaps not the correct word. 739 00:56:25,085 --> 00:56:27,085 He was an outright egomaniac. 740 00:56:27,793 --> 00:56:30,418 Whenever there was a really serious accident, 741 00:56:30,835 --> 00:56:32,876 this became an even bigger problem, 742 00:56:33,085 --> 00:56:36,710 because, all of a sudden, he was no longer the center of attention. 743 00:56:36,918 --> 00:56:38,710 He was no longer important. 744 00:56:38,918 --> 00:56:40,918 There was an incident, for example, 745 00:56:41,126 --> 00:56:45,501 where one of our lumberman was bitten by a snake while cutting a tree. 746 00:56:45,835 --> 00:56:48,876 Something like this happened only one time in three years, 747 00:56:49,085 --> 00:56:51,376 with hundreds of woodcutters in the jungle 748 00:56:51,585 --> 00:56:55,043 who always worked barefoot with their chainsaws. 749 00:56:55,543 --> 00:57:00,460 All snakes naturally flee from the smell of the gasoline and from the noise. 750 00:57:01,126 --> 00:57:05,043 And suddenly, this man feels a snake striking him twice. 751 00:57:05,251 --> 00:57:09,251 And it was a shushúpe, this is the most dangerous snake of all. 752 00:57:10,751 --> 00:57:16,501 Normally, takes only a few minutes before cardiac arrest occurs, and breathing stops. 753 00:57:16,918 --> 00:57:22,335 And he dropped the saw, the power was cut off, and he thought about it for five seconds. 754 00:57:22,751 --> 00:57:24,960 And then he grabbed the saw again, 755 00:57:25,168 --> 00:57:30,418 started it up the way you start an outboard motor, and cut off his foot. 756 00:57:31,001 --> 00:57:36,876 And that saved his life, because our camp with the doctor and the serum was 20 minutes away. 757 00:57:39,126 --> 00:57:42,960 When that happened, I knew Kinski would start raving, 758 00:57:43,168 --> 00:57:49,460 because now he was just a marginal figure. He would find some trifling excuse. 759 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:56,918 Or, in another incident, a plane crashed, which was bringing six people to this place. 760 00:57:57,126 --> 00:58:01,835 Luckily, they all survived. Some of them, however, were seriously injured. 761 00:58:02,460 --> 00:58:06,085 There were confusing reports on the radio, completely garbled, 762 00:58:06,293 --> 00:58:09,710 and Kinski saw that he was no longer in demand. 763 00:58:09,918 --> 00:58:14,668 And so, he threw a fit, because his coffee had been only lukewarm that morning. 764 00:58:14,876 --> 00:58:18,501 And for hours, he screamed at me, that close to my face. 765 00:58:18,710 --> 00:58:20,251 It was incredible, 766 00:58:20,460 --> 00:58:25,043 and I didn't know how to calm him down, and I finally had an inspiration. 767 00:58:25,501 --> 00:58:30,126 I went to my hut, where, for months I had hidden a piece of chocolate. 768 00:58:30,335 --> 00:58:33,918 We would almost have killed one another for something like that. 769 00:58:34,126 --> 00:58:38,876 And I went back to him, and going right into his face, ate the chocolate. 770 00:58:39,085 --> 00:58:43,251 And all of a sudden, he was quiet. This was utterly beyond him. 771 00:58:45,168 --> 00:58:46,585 Towards the end of shooting, 772 00:58:46,793 --> 00:58:49,418 the Indians offered to kill Kinski for me. 773 00:58:50,251 --> 00:58:52,126 They said, "Shall we kill him for you?" 774 00:58:52,335 --> 00:58:55,876 And I said, "No, for God's sake! I still need him for shooting. 775 00:58:56,085 --> 00:58:57,876 "Leave him to me! Leave him to me!" 776 00:58:58,085 --> 00:59:02,293 And I declined at the time, but they were dead serious. 777 00:59:02,585 --> 00:59:05,668 They would have killed him, undoubtedly, if I had wanted it. 778 00:59:08,043 --> 00:59:13,376 I at once regretted that I had held the Indians back from their purpose. 779 00:59:14,460 --> 00:59:19,543 By the way, the proposal to do away with Kinski came from this Chief. 780 00:59:19,751 --> 00:59:26,751 [foreign language] 781 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,001 The seething rage the Indians felt toward Kinski 782 00:59:31,210 --> 00:59:35,710 was very palpable for me here, and was exploited for this scene. 783 00:59:35,918 --> 00:59:45,917 [foreign language] 784 00:59:47,335 --> 00:59:51,876 However, Kinski maintained that in his innermost being 785 00:59:52,085 --> 00:59:55,460 he felt close to the Indians, but this wasn't true. 786 00:59:55,668 --> 00:59:59,001 He said it only because he wanted to pretend 787 00:59:59,210 --> 01:00:04,251 that he was close to "Nature's Children," and thus to "Mother Nature." 788 01:00:11,210 --> 01:00:14,418 Between Kinski and me, there was an unbridgeable gap. 789 01:00:14,626 --> 01:00:17,418 And this had to do with his feeling for nature. 790 01:00:18,043 --> 01:00:20,793 He stylized himself as the "Natural Man," 791 01:00:21,335 --> 01:00:27,668 and I believe that everything he said about the jungle, and how he felt about it, was mainly posing. 792 01:00:27,876 --> 01:00:32,585 He declared everything around here erotic, but he never went near the jungle. 793 01:00:32,793 --> 01:00:36,960 We stayed for months in a camp in the jungle, like this here, very nearby, 794 01:00:37,168 --> 01:00:40,460 but he never so much as set foot in the jungle. 795 01:00:40,668 --> 01:00:46,085 Just once he penetrated it about 100 feet, where a fallen tree lay. 796 01:00:46,293 --> 01:00:48,918 And of course, the photographer had to go with him, 797 01:00:49,126 --> 01:00:53,210 and had to take hundreds of photos of him tenderly embracing 798 01:00:53,418 --> 01:00:55,710 and copulating with this tree. 799 01:00:56,335 --> 01:00:58,335 He loved to show off this way, 800 01:01:00,626 --> 01:01:04,835 Poses and paraphernalia were what mattered to him. 801 01:01:05,043 --> 01:01:09,085 His arrived here with high alpine gear, which was far more important 802 01:01:09,293 --> 01:01:11,126 than the mountains themselves. 803 01:01:11,835 --> 01:01:15,710 His camouflage combat fatigues, tailored by Yves Saint Laurent, 804 01:01:15,918 --> 01:01:18,376 were much more important than any jungle. 805 01:01:18,793 --> 01:01:22,168 I think that Kinski, and not only in this regard, 806 01:01:22,376 --> 01:01:27,418 was generously endowed with a fair share of natural stupidity. 807 01:01:29,126 --> 01:01:36,168 The difference between our views became particularly apparent during the shooting of "Fitzcarraldo." 808 01:01:38,126 --> 01:01:41,043 Of course, we are challenging nature itself, 809 01:01:41,210 --> 01:01:45,460 and it hits back, it just hits back that's all, and, 810 01:01:45,626 --> 01:01:51,460 that's grandiose about it, and we have to accept that it is much stronger than we are. 811 01:01:52,168 --> 01:01:56,501 Kinski always says it's full of erotic elements. 812 01:01:56,668 --> 01:02:01,835 I don't see it so much erotic, I see it more full of obscenity. 813 01:02:02,668 --> 01:02:06,251 It's just, the nature here is vile and base. 814 01:02:07,001 --> 01:02:09,668 I wouldn't anything erotical here. 815 01:02:09,835 --> 01:02:14,335 I would see fornication and asphyxiation and choking, and, 816 01:02:14,751 --> 01:02:18,501 fighting for survival, and growing, and, 817 01:02:20,335 --> 01:02:22,168 just rotting away. 818 01:02:23,585 --> 01:02:29,876 Of course there is a lot of misery, but it is the same misery that is all around us. 819 01:02:30,418 --> 01:02:32,668 The trees here are in misery, and, 820 01:02:33,460 --> 01:02:34,918 the birds are in misery. 821 01:02:35,085 --> 01:02:38,668 I don't think they sing, they just screech in pain 822 01:02:54,126 --> 01:02:59,001 Taking a close look at what's around us, there is some sort of a harmony, 823 01:02:59,168 --> 01:03:05,168 it is the harmony of overwhelming and collective murder. 824 01:03:08,335 --> 01:03:13,293 But, when I say this, I say this all full of admiration for the jungle. 825 01:03:13,460 --> 01:03:17,335 It is not that I hate it, I love it, I love it very much. 826 01:03:17,501 --> 01:03:20,293 But I love it against my better judgement. 827 01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:28,168 Something very strange, I think, is that we reached some kind of tacit understanding 828 01:03:28,376 --> 01:03:30,876 which extended even to his ravings. 829 01:03:31,668 --> 01:03:37,793 Sometimes, I think, he had a vague and shadowy awareness that he needed to produce a fit. 830 01:03:38,793 --> 01:03:44,251 I often provoked him, making a disparaging remark so that he would explode. 831 01:03:44,710 --> 01:03:49,293 And I knew he would then continue screaming for one and a half hours. 832 01:03:49,918 --> 01:03:54,418 He screamed in a way that white foam appeared at the corners of his mouth, 833 01:03:54,668 --> 01:03:57,001 until he had emptied himself out. 834 01:03:57,626 --> 01:04:03,043 For instance, it was precisely such moments when Aguirre's madness would break through. 835 01:04:03,293 --> 01:04:08,126 I knew there had to be a very quiet, very dangerous tone now. 836 01:04:12,543 --> 01:04:17,126 Kinski saw it differently. He wanted Aguirre to start ranting and raving, 837 01:04:17,335 --> 01:04:22,001 declaring himself to be the great traitor and the Wrath of God. 838 01:04:22,418 --> 01:04:25,293 And I think, deep inside, he did understand me, 839 01:04:25,543 --> 01:04:30,460 and hoped I would provoke him, so he would throw his tantrum first, 840 01:04:30,710 --> 01:04:32,626 and then we could shoot the scene. 841 01:04:35,460 --> 01:04:39,918 I'm the great traitor. There must be no other. 842 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:47,418 Anyone even thinking of deserting will be cut up into 198 pieces. 843 01:04:48,335 --> 01:04:50,835 The pieces will be trampled 844 01:04:51,001 --> 01:04:53,835 and the remains used for painting walls. 845 01:05:00,085 --> 01:05:02,668 If you take a grain of corn 846 01:05:02,835 --> 01:05:05,460 or a drop of water more than the ration, 847 01:05:06,626 --> 01:05:11,126 you'll be locked up for 155 years. 848 01:05:16,585 --> 01:05:20,960 If I, Aguirre, want the birds to drop dead from the trees, 849 01:05:21,126 --> 01:05:24,918 they will drop dead from the trees. 850 01:05:28,626 --> 01:05:31,126 I am the Wrath of God. 851 01:05:32,585 --> 01:05:36,085 The earth I pass will see me and tremble. 852 01:05:41,710 --> 01:05:46,376 Who follows me and the river will win untold riches. 853 01:05:55,710 --> 01:05:58,293 Whoever deserts... 854 01:06:17,668 --> 01:06:21,668 Kinski sometimes seriously believed that I was mad. 855 01:06:22,126 --> 01:06:23,626 This isn't true of course. 856 01:06:25,210 --> 01:06:28,585 I'm quite sane, clinically sane, so to speak. 857 01:06:29,293 --> 01:06:33,585 Nevertheless, he might have been referring to something in particular. 858 01:06:34,043 --> 01:06:36,835 Together, we were like two critical masses, 859 01:06:37,043 --> 01:06:41,251 which result in a dangerous mixture when they come into contact. 860 01:06:42,210 --> 01:06:44,918 Something that became highly explosive. 861 01:06:46,501 --> 01:06:51,418 I was never out of my senses but perhaps just very angry. 862 01:06:52,293 --> 01:06:58,085 It went so far that one day, I seriously planned to firebomb him in his house. 863 01:07:00,793 --> 01:07:05,626 This was prevented only by the vigilance of his Alsatian shepherd. 864 01:07:08,126 --> 01:07:11,418 But still, although we kept our distance, 865 01:07:11,626 --> 01:07:15,501 we did seek out one another, again, at the right time. 866 01:07:17,043 --> 01:07:18,376 Where's Werner? 867 01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,043 - Hello. - I'm Tom Luddy. 868 01:07:22,251 --> 01:07:24,835 - Oh, you're Tom Luddy. - Yeah. 869 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,626 We met at the Telluride Film Festival in Colorado. 870 01:07:32,835 --> 01:07:36,293 At that time, we had already made three films together, 871 01:07:36,501 --> 01:07:39,126 and we hadn't seen each other for some time, 872 01:07:39,335 --> 01:07:41,168 and were looking forward to our meeting, 873 01:07:41,543 --> 01:07:46,585 although I had only shortly before given up my plan to murder him. 874 01:07:46,793 --> 01:07:48,251 But I really want to kill him. 875 01:07:48,418 --> 01:07:51,918 Yes, he also did want to kill me. 876 01:07:52,085 --> 01:07:56,085 See, I don't know him, I never met him, I never worked with him. 877 01:07:56,626 --> 01:07:58,085 Nice to meet you. 878 01:07:58,668 --> 01:08:01,126 - How are you? - Have you met before? 879 01:08:01,293 --> 01:08:04,376 - No, they just met. - Only on the battlefield. 880 01:08:06,085 --> 01:08:08,585 On the battlefield of life itself. 881 01:08:09,251 --> 01:08:14,501 He's crazy, that's why we work together. Otherwise we would never do anything together. 882 01:08:14,710 --> 01:08:16,251 He takes his work to heart. 883 01:08:16,460 --> 01:08:19,460 - Why do you work together? - Because he's crazy. 884 01:08:20,626 --> 01:08:22,501 And so I am, that's why. 885 01:08:23,335 --> 01:08:27,543 It's a perfect combination of the mad people, madmen. 886 01:08:28,418 --> 01:08:31,626 We go as far as possible. 887 01:08:31,793 --> 01:08:35,876 So that's why I didn't even need to tell him, 888 01:08:36,043 --> 01:08:41,960 to tell Werner, don't stop it, before I break down. He wouldn't stop anyway. 889 01:08:45,168 --> 01:08:51,543 You can't direct it, things really happen. You can't direct, it's ridiculous, you know. 890 01:08:51,710 --> 01:08:57,376 And this I call genius, if directors, this way... 891 01:08:57,543 --> 01:09:01,293 I can see through him like one can see through water in the sink. 892 01:09:01,751 --> 01:09:08,626 And I know what's in there, and I know what can be mobilized, and I know what can be articulated 893 01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:17,418 And I know the energy and his so-called insanity or whatever you call it. 894 01:09:17,626 --> 01:09:23,835 And I know how to evoke it, how to bring it to life. 895 01:09:24,460 --> 01:09:28,043 And that's why he feels safe when we work together, 896 01:09:28,210 --> 01:09:36,793 because he knows that I can bring his innermost qualities into life, in front of a camera. 897 01:09:37,460 --> 01:09:40,210 Nosferatu, Phantom of the Night 898 01:10:24,043 --> 01:10:28,168 You must excuse my rude entrance. 899 01:10:28,335 --> 01:10:31,043 I am Count Dracula. 900 01:10:32,418 --> 01:10:34,585 I know of you. 901 01:10:35,418 --> 01:10:39,085 I read Jonathan's diary. 902 01:10:40,001 --> 01:10:44,043 Since he has been with you, he is ruined. 903 01:10:44,210 --> 01:10:45,543 He won't die. 904 01:10:45,710 --> 01:10:47,543 Yes, he will. 905 01:10:49,335 --> 01:10:52,543 Dying is cruelty to the unsuspecting. 906 01:10:52,710 --> 01:10:55,543 But death isn't everything. 907 01:10:56,543 --> 01:11:00,626 It is more cruel not to be able to die. 908 01:11:00,793 --> 01:11:06,251 I wish I could partake of the love between you and Jonathan. 909 01:11:08,043 --> 01:11:13,793 Nothing in this world, not even God, can touch that. 910 01:11:14,710 --> 01:11:19,418 It won't change, even if he never recognizes me again. 911 01:11:19,585 --> 01:11:21,751 I could change everything. 912 01:11:21,918 --> 01:11:25,626 Will you come to me and be my ally? 913 01:11:25,793 --> 01:11:28,501 There'd be salvation for your husband... 914 01:11:28,501 --> 01:11:30,418 and for me. 915 01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,960 The absence of love 916 01:11:36,126 --> 01:11:39,876 is the most abject pain. 917 01:11:41,126 --> 01:11:44,668 Salvation comes from ourselves alone. 918 01:11:46,501 --> 01:11:49,460 You may rest assured 919 01:11:49,626 --> 01:11:54,460 that even the unthinkable will not deter me. 920 01:12:05,793 --> 01:12:08,960 Every gray hair on my head I call Kinski. 921 01:12:17,793 --> 01:12:21,251 Oh yes, I miss him. Now and then, I do miss him. 922 01:12:21,460 --> 01:12:26,376 Not all the time, but there are moments when he is very much alive for me. 923 01:12:28,126 --> 01:12:30,918 The most important thing was that, 924 01:12:31,126 --> 01:12:35,126 through him, a climate of unconditional professionalism was created. 925 01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:40,460 He used to complain about the lighting and demanded changes, and I think, 926 01:12:42,251 --> 01:12:46,335 I can remember that vividly, when we were shooting in Iquitos that time, 927 01:12:46,543 --> 01:12:48,751 in the post office, together with Bill Rose. 928 01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:52,501 He was standing there and noticed that something wasn't quite as it should be, 929 01:12:52,751 --> 01:12:56,835 And as always, he asked for a mirror. And as always, he was right. 930 01:12:57,043 --> 01:13:01,126 But I mean it never happened that he maintained something was wrong, when it wasn't. 931 01:13:03,543 --> 01:13:06,501 And he also sensed, with 25 people on the set, 932 01:13:06,710 --> 01:13:09,626 when back there somebody whispered, or did something. 933 01:13:11,835 --> 01:13:14,835 Yes, the raving fit would follow without fail. 934 01:13:15,043 --> 01:13:19,001 Yes, I think so. It was almost an animal presence that he displayed. 935 01:13:21,668 --> 01:13:25,376 I learned something special from him, from his physicality. 936 01:13:25,585 --> 01:13:28,085 I later called it the Kinski spiral, 937 01:13:28,293 --> 01:13:31,335 meaning an appearance from behind the camera. 938 01:13:32,751 --> 01:13:36,293 If you enter the scene from the side, showing your profile, 939 01:13:36,501 --> 01:13:39,335 and then face the camera, there is no tension. 940 01:13:40,585 --> 01:13:41,960 And he developed something: 941 01:13:42,210 --> 01:13:46,335 he would stand next to the tripod, and twist his leg around like that, 942 01:13:46,543 --> 01:13:51,501 and this way, the body had to spiral itself organically into the picture. 943 01:13:54,001 --> 01:13:56,793 Now if you were the camera, like this, 944 01:13:57,001 --> 01:14:01,710 he would position himself right next to it and twist into frame. 945 01:14:01,918 --> 01:14:05,293 And this created a mysterious, disturbing tension. 946 01:14:27,043 --> 01:14:29,668 Play something for the men. 947 01:14:46,585 --> 01:14:50,210 He did spiral just like that, I can remember, up on that platform 948 01:14:50,418 --> 01:14:53,293 when we were filming simultaneously from a helicopter. 949 01:14:53,501 --> 01:14:55,335 And everybody was up on that platform, 950 01:14:55,543 --> 01:14:58,668 and he did it, and obviously, that was very dangerous... 951 01:15:03,085 --> 01:15:06,501 ...because it was well over 120 feet up in the treetops. 952 01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,876 And everything was swaying and rocking, and they hoisted us up there. 953 01:15:11,085 --> 01:15:20,460 [foreign language] 954 01:15:24,585 --> 01:15:34,584 [foreign language] 955 01:16:20,210 --> 01:16:23,043 I can hardly believe it. 956 01:16:23,210 --> 01:16:26,626 There! There is the Ucayali. 957 01:16:27,918 --> 01:16:31,626 The river above the Pongo das Mortes is ours. 958 01:16:31,793 --> 01:16:35,251 So, we're building a train tunnel. 959 01:16:35,460 --> 01:16:40,668 No, we'll drag the ship over the mountain! 960 01:16:40,835 --> 01:16:43,543 The bare-asses will help. 961 01:16:43,710 --> 01:16:45,960 How will you do it? 962 01:16:46,126 --> 01:16:48,835 Just as the cow jumped over the moon. 963 01:16:50,126 --> 01:16:55,543 We often understood one another without words, almost the way animals understand each other. 964 01:16:56,168 --> 01:17:00,168 And the closeness became such that we almost changed roles, 965 01:17:00,418 --> 01:17:02,710 as this example possibly shows. 966 01:17:03,085 --> 01:17:06,876 When we started, Jason Robards was Fitzcarraldo, 967 01:17:07,085 --> 01:17:09,293 and Mick Jagger played his sidekick. 968 01:17:10,001 --> 01:17:12,626 We started shooting, and Jason Robards became so ill 969 01:17:12,835 --> 01:17:15,501 that we had to fly him out to the United States. 970 01:17:15,710 --> 01:17:18,501 And the doctors wouldn't permit him to return. 971 01:17:18,710 --> 01:17:28,709 [foreign language] 972 01:17:39,376 --> 01:17:45,668 And therefore, since I cannot prove a lover, To entertain these fair well-spoken days, 973 01:17:45,835 --> 01:17:52,168 I am determined to prove a villain And hate the idle pleasures of these days. 974 01:17:54,626 --> 01:17:59,626 Wilbur, you are definitely my man. 975 01:18:15,210 --> 01:18:20,710 We want the Opera in Iquitos! We need Opera here, 976 01:18:20,876 --> 01:18:25,876 - Don't you want...you hear! - ...music in your soul! 977 01:18:26,043 --> 01:18:27,418 Come and join us! 978 01:18:38,293 --> 01:18:41,460 This church remains closed 979 01:18:41,626 --> 01:18:44,543 until the town has its opera house. 980 01:18:48,126 --> 01:18:50,293 I want the opera house. 981 01:18:51,043 --> 01:18:53,376 I want my opera house! 982 01:18:54,460 --> 01:18:57,210 I want an opera house! 983 01:18:58,501 --> 01:19:03,876 This church will stay closed until this town has an opera! 984 01:19:04,793 --> 01:19:08,210 I will build my opera house'. 985 01:19:08,418 --> 01:19:11,210 I will build an opera'. 986 01:19:11,418 --> 01:19:13,876 I want to have an opera! 987 01:19:21,918 --> 01:19:24,501 I want my opera house. 988 01:19:34,710 --> 01:19:36,793 I knew that if I didn't get him, 989 01:19:37,001 --> 01:19:40,710 I would have to change body and role with him, so to speak. 990 01:19:41,376 --> 01:19:43,793 I would then have to be Fitzcarraldo. 991 01:19:44,001 --> 01:19:47,418 I thank God on my knees that I didn't have to, 992 01:19:47,626 --> 01:19:49,585 and that Kinski did it. 993 01:19:53,168 --> 01:19:56,918 We had a blessed one working there, and I am truly glad. 994 01:19:57,126 --> 01:20:00,251 I met him in New York, and he was just great. 995 01:20:00,460 --> 01:20:06,043 I was completely devastated, and he immediately opened a bottle of champagne and said, 996 01:20:06,585 --> 01:20:10,293 "I knew it, Werner. I knew I would be Fitzcarraldo. 997 01:20:10,501 --> 01:20:13,251 "I am Fitzcarraldo, and you're not going to be him 998 01:20:13,460 --> 01:20:15,251 "because I'm much better than you." 999 01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:17,293 Of course he was right. 1000 01:20:18,335 --> 01:20:22,335 But when I brought him to this site, he saw how steep the terrain was, 1001 01:20:22,543 --> 01:20:28,126 his heart immediately sank, and he thought, "For God's sake, this can't be done." 1002 01:20:28,335 --> 01:20:29,793 He saw it at once. 1003 01:20:31,126 --> 01:20:37,126 Our task was to heave an Amazon steamboat, bit by bit, across that thing there. 1004 01:20:39,043 --> 01:20:41,543 Do you see the red cliff there? 1005 01:20:41,751 --> 01:20:43,210 Yes, I see it. 1006 01:20:44,043 --> 01:20:46,085 That must be it. 1007 01:20:46,293 --> 01:20:51,835 Good. We can't go much further, or we'll run aground on a sandbank. 1008 01:20:53,001 --> 01:20:58,210 The slope looks insignificant, but it's my destiny. 1009 01:21:00,210 --> 01:21:06,335 Strangely enough, he became the one who would later prove to be the strongest negative force 1010 01:21:06,835 --> 01:21:10,960 which worked to break up the project, or at least change it. 1011 01:21:13,501 --> 01:21:18,210 I remember, when the river was swollen, and I was sitting in my hut, a little further up, 1012 01:21:18,418 --> 01:21:22,793 gazing at the river, which kept rising and rising, all day long. 1013 01:21:23,460 --> 01:21:27,793 And then, all of a sudden, there was a delegation which had been sent by Kinski. 1014 01:21:28,001 --> 01:21:31,418 This was quite clear, and they arrived with tea and said, 1015 01:21:31,626 --> 01:21:33,376 "Let's be calm now. 1016 01:21:33,585 --> 01:21:36,126 "And let's think about what we can do now." 1017 01:21:36,376 --> 01:21:42,126 And I said, "What do you mean? I am calm. I am the only one who is calm here." 1018 01:21:43,793 --> 01:21:48,876 And they wanted kind of- Kinski wanted to protect me from my own madness. 1019 01:21:50,585 --> 01:21:54,835 And by this attempt to talk me out of the film, it was clear that Kinski, 1020 01:21:55,043 --> 01:21:59,876 the strongest force which had been with me here, had now also abandoned me. 1021 01:22:00,376 --> 01:22:04,043 Inwardly, everyone had left me, and the loneliness, 1022 01:22:04,251 --> 01:22:08,751 week after week, was difficult for me of course, perhaps the most difficult thing. 1023 01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:13,210 There was nobody on my side any longer, nobody who believed in the film. 1024 01:22:13,460 --> 01:22:17,793 Nobody. Not a single one. Not one. Nobody. 1025 01:22:19,418 --> 01:22:21,918 And only when the boat started to move, 1026 01:22:22,126 --> 01:22:26,335 which was an unheard of, incredible, mechanical, kinetic effort, 1027 01:22:26,626 --> 01:22:30,543 then all of a sudden, Kinski realized there was a chance, 1028 01:22:30,751 --> 01:22:34,126 and he put enthusiasm and energy into the story. 1029 01:22:34,918 --> 01:22:40,418 The dynamics and straining of this boat, as well as his sheer physical effort, 1030 01:22:40,668 --> 01:22:42,626 are both visible on the screen. 1031 01:22:42,876 --> 01:22:45,543 Although I felt a certain disappointment 1032 01:22:45,751 --> 01:22:51,626 that he didn't fully participate until this point, I held onto one thing always. 1033 01:22:51,835 --> 01:22:53,835 With all the films we did together, 1034 01:22:54,043 --> 01:22:58,960 the only thing that counted in the end is what you see on the screen. 1035 01:23:01,043 --> 01:23:04,668 That's him. That's him right there. 1036 01:23:11,626 --> 01:23:13,751 Pull harder! 1037 01:23:17,168 --> 01:23:18,960 The bandito! 1038 01:23:19,210 --> 01:23:21,626 I can't believe it, it works! 1039 01:23:21,793 --> 01:23:23,793 It works. 1040 01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,376 - It works! - It works! 1041 01:23:38,210 --> 01:23:39,960 Careful! 1042 01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:46,543 For me, he was a magnificent actor. 1043 01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:52,876 And he has, he had this capacity of transformation, that I love. 1044 01:23:53,751 --> 01:23:55,376 He was very difficult. 1045 01:23:56,085 --> 01:24:00,626 I remember, when I was supposed to do the film with you, 1046 01:24:01,293 --> 01:24:04,460 All the people, actors and actresses, they said to me, 1047 01:24:04,626 --> 01:24:08,085 my God, you're going to work with Klaus. 1048 01:24:08,418 --> 01:24:10,626 He's impossible to work with. 1049 01:24:11,043 --> 01:24:12,626 He's totally crazy. 1050 01:24:13,335 --> 01:24:17,335 He's nuts, you cannot work with him. It's impossible. 1051 01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:25,043 He had something that I liked very much, such a warmth, and so much humor with you. 1052 01:24:25,210 --> 01:24:30,126 In hundred and sixty films or so, he didn't even smile. 1053 01:24:30,293 --> 01:24:30,918 Nein. 1054 01:24:31,085 --> 01:24:35,751 But, together with you, he was a warm-hearted, kind man. 1055 01:24:35,918 --> 01:24:37,751 It was fantastic. 1056 01:24:38,210 --> 01:24:41,626 - He was almost timid with you. - He was very shy. 1057 01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:45,501 Yes, he was very shy, and, 1058 01:24:47,210 --> 01:24:50,626 he never said nasty things to me. 1059 01:24:51,085 --> 01:24:57,168 On the contrary, he was very polite, very sweet. 1060 01:24:57,710 --> 01:25:05,793 He used to write me little notes, nice, that I found in my room. 1061 01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:08,668 Just sweet things, very nice things. 1062 01:25:09,293 --> 01:25:14,835 But I remember also that he was afraid of a lot of things. 1063 01:25:15,460 --> 01:25:21,460 And I remember in the hotel, where we went to have lunch together, 1064 01:25:22,126 --> 01:25:26,501 he used to bring a bottle of alcohol, and he was putting alcohol everywhere. 1065 01:25:26,668 --> 01:25:28,751 On the dish, on the glasses, everywhere. 1066 01:25:29,585 --> 01:25:32,793 - And I...to "clean" everything. - Cleans it. 1067 01:25:33,335 --> 01:25:40,335 And he couldn't bear human touch, he would immediately wash his hands with alcohol. 1068 01:25:40,918 --> 01:25:43,043 It's a little bit like Michael Jackson 1069 01:25:43,543 --> 01:25:45,960 For a really big boat, my money won't be enough. 1070 01:25:46,126 --> 01:25:48,293 You'll make it. 1071 01:26:09,251 --> 01:26:15,501 I remember also another time, where we were shooting in a room with a little animal, 1072 01:26:15,668 --> 01:26:20,876 and he became completely crazy because he had to take this little animal, you remember? 1073 01:26:21,043 --> 01:26:23,418 - Yes - And he went through the camera, 1074 01:26:23,585 --> 01:26:27,918 - Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. - And he shout on the cameraman, that day, 1075 01:26:29,168 --> 01:26:31,710 - It was on the bedroom, - Yes. 1076 01:26:31,876 --> 01:26:36,043 He romp, I think it was because he had to touch this... 1077 01:26:36,210 --> 01:26:38,376 Yeah, it was a young ocelot. 1078 01:26:38,543 --> 01:26:40,543 - Yes, exactly, yeah. - Which is very good 1079 01:26:40,710 --> 01:26:44,710 And the shouting came seconds after we stopped the camera. 1080 01:26:45,793 --> 01:26:50,751 - Thanks God, yes. - Fortunately, he was totally hysterical that day. 1081 01:26:52,543 --> 01:26:58,626 I remember, every night, when we were coming after the shooting, 1082 01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:03,085 from the Amazon, yeah, and you were coming back, 1083 01:27:03,376 --> 01:27:08,876 - with a little book like this. A notebook. - A notebook, yes. 1084 01:27:09,418 --> 01:27:17,710 And you were writing everything, for you, and Klaus was very, very, very jealous, 1085 01:27:17,876 --> 01:27:20,835 because he was out of it. You remember that? 1086 01:27:21,001 --> 01:27:24,876 Yes. And he was afraid somehow of what I was writing. 1087 01:27:25,043 --> 01:27:29,168 Exactly. Because it was for him, something mysterious. 1088 01:27:29,376 --> 01:27:32,751 He wasn't part of. I remember that. 1089 01:27:34,376 --> 01:27:38,251 I remember your book. It was difficult to read, because it was so small. 1090 01:27:38,418 --> 01:27:44,835 You know, my longhand is of normal size, but I brought it down to microscopic size. 1091 01:27:45,001 --> 01:27:46,585 It's very strange. 1092 01:27:47,168 --> 01:27:51,626 It was impossible. I think you, after you did a book of it, 1093 01:27:52,043 --> 01:27:53,626 No, I never published it. 1094 01:27:53,793 --> 01:27:56,751 - I never even dared to read it. - Oh, you never. 1095 01:28:03,460 --> 01:28:05,501 This here, I remember very well... 1096 01:28:05,710 --> 01:28:09,001 A photo you took which served as a model for a painting. 1097 01:28:09,210 --> 01:28:12,585 - It was this one. - Yes, that's it. 1098 01:28:13,043 --> 01:28:16,251 This was the moment when he saw the painting for the first time. 1099 01:28:16,460 --> 01:28:20,085 You can see how we had relaxed moments with one another. 1100 01:28:21,168 --> 01:28:24,585 But I remember well that his mood changed completely here. 1101 01:28:24,793 --> 01:28:27,210 Suddenly, something in the picture didn't suit him anymore, 1102 01:28:27,418 --> 01:28:30,543 and he exploded and started screaming like a berserk. 1103 01:28:30,751 --> 01:28:33,460 Yes, that happened from one second to the next. 1104 01:28:34,126 --> 01:28:39,251 He had this capacity for changing around completely, and becoming a totally different person. 1105 01:28:39,876 --> 01:28:43,501 This polarity that manifested itself again and again. 1106 01:28:45,001 --> 01:28:46,126 Yes. 1107 01:28:47,251 --> 01:28:50,210 - This became our poster. - Yes, that's the one. 1108 01:28:50,418 --> 01:28:51,835 Nobody believed at first 1109 01:28:52,043 --> 01:28:54,918 that we actually heaved the boat across the mountain. 1110 01:28:55,126 --> 01:28:59,085 And you have furnished the proof, and the movie does it as well. 1111 01:28:59,293 --> 01:29:02,668 Yes, here's the evidence in black and white, and on paper. 1112 01:29:03,168 --> 01:29:08,210 It is a great metaphor. Metaphor for what, I don't really know to this day, 1113 01:29:08,418 --> 01:29:10,626 but I know it's a great metaphor. 1114 01:29:12,126 --> 01:29:14,876 - And here, well - "Cobra Verde," the end. 1115 01:29:15,085 --> 01:29:18,585 This is where you show Kinski how he had to walk in this scene. 1116 01:29:21,418 --> 01:29:24,210 In front of the crippled man, yes. 1117 01:29:25,585 --> 01:29:28,960 He had polio as a child, and you cast him in the film. 1118 01:29:30,626 --> 01:29:34,376 And you used to act things out for Kinski, beautifully. 1119 01:29:36,751 --> 01:29:38,751 - We often changed parts. - Yes. 1120 01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:42,251 - I could have played this role as well. - No doubt. 1121 01:29:42,751 --> 01:29:45,251 You would have also been a good Fitzcarraldo. 1122 01:29:45,835 --> 01:29:47,335 That's what you are, in reality. 1123 01:29:48,001 --> 01:29:50,335 And here, I truly like this very much. 1124 01:29:50,543 --> 01:29:53,043 It happened, of course, because Kinski must have sensed 1125 01:29:53,251 --> 01:29:55,043 the presence of your camera. 1126 01:29:55,251 --> 01:29:58,960 Yes. And he also just wanted to let you have it, didn't he? 1127 01:30:04,210 --> 01:30:07,585 There you are, when you're directing the army of 800 African women. 1128 01:30:07,835 --> 01:30:10,210 Not just women, but Amazon warriors. 1129 01:30:13,918 --> 01:30:18,918 Yes, like a shepherd dog, as usual, without megaphone or loudspeaker. 1130 01:30:19,126 --> 01:30:20,293 Always running. 1131 01:30:20,501 --> 01:30:25,460 Yes, physical. And Kinski was very, very physical, too, but differently. 1132 01:30:25,668 --> 01:30:28,626 He drew everyone, and I held them together. 1133 01:30:28,835 --> 01:30:33,626 Yes, that's what you do, that's your work, and you've done it with bravado. 1134 01:30:34,126 --> 01:30:38,376 But we complemented each other well, because I kept the herd together, 1135 01:30:38,585 --> 01:30:41,001 and he attracted it magnetically. 1136 01:30:41,251 --> 01:30:43,543 You can see this in this picture here. 1137 01:30:47,793 --> 01:30:51,793 This is him as the leader of the rebellion against the King, 1138 01:30:52,001 --> 01:30:56,876 with this incredible energy, with this crazed energy he possessed. 1139 01:31:00,543 --> 01:31:04,626 They took the sacred python from the temple! Go back! 1140 01:31:04,793 --> 01:31:06,168 Nobody passes alive! 1141 01:31:06,335 --> 01:31:08,626 In my country, I was a snake! 1142 01:31:08,793 --> 01:31:10,835 Out of my way! 1143 01:31:37,210 --> 01:31:41,210 No! No! 1144 01:31:41,710 --> 01:31:45,710 Stay back! His wives will strangle him now. 1145 01:31:54,626 --> 01:32:00,085 This scene, where the slave trader Cobra Verde tries to flee and meets his death, 1146 01:32:00,293 --> 01:32:03,335 was the last day of shooting that we had together. 1147 01:32:04,335 --> 01:32:06,835 Kinski was completely beyond control. 1148 01:32:09,460 --> 01:32:16,043 He already identified himself too completely with the role in his own film project, "Paganini," 1149 01:32:16,251 --> 01:32:20,418 and brought with him into my film an unpleasant climate, 1150 01:32:20,626 --> 01:32:24,626 something offensive, something that was alien to me. 1151 01:32:25,960 --> 01:32:29,876 Kinski had insisted for years that I should direct "Paganini", 1152 01:32:30,460 --> 01:32:34,751 but I always declined because I considered his script unfilmable. 1153 01:32:35,751 --> 01:32:37,918 He finally made the film alone. 1154 01:32:38,543 --> 01:32:41,585 I didn't want to continue our collaboration. 1155 01:32:41,793 --> 01:32:43,793 We parted ways. 1156 01:32:45,085 --> 01:32:50,210 In 1991, he died in his home, north of San Francisco. 1157 01:32:50,418 --> 01:32:52,085 He had spent himself. 1158 01:32:52,251 --> 01:32:55,793 It was as if he had burned himself out. 1159 01:33:01,376 --> 01:33:04,335 He had put so much intensity into this scene, 1160 01:33:04,543 --> 01:33:07,960 that, from this alone, he had emptied himself out. 1161 01:33:08,918 --> 01:33:12,293 Perhaps this should have been filmed at the start of shooting, 1162 01:33:12,501 --> 01:33:16,835 but in any case, what happened was, that he had spent himself. 1163 01:33:17,085 --> 01:33:19,293 He burned away like a comet. 1164 01:33:19,543 --> 01:33:23,918 Afterwards, he wasn't there anymore. Afterwards, he was ashes. 1165 01:33:24,126 --> 01:33:25,793 This is what I sensed, 1166 01:33:26,001 --> 01:33:28,126 and he himself said something similar. 1167 01:33:28,543 --> 01:33:33,251 He said, "We can go no further. I am no more." 1168 01:35:14,210 --> 01:35:17,626 Sometimes I want to put my arm around him again, 1169 01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:24,126 but I guess I only dream about this because I've seen this in old footage of the two of us. 1170 01:35:24,835 --> 01:35:27,876 We are friends, we joke with one another 1171 01:35:28,126 --> 01:35:30,626 as if it had always been that way. 1172 01:35:31,210 --> 01:35:33,668 No, He didn't say shut up! 1173 01:35:33,835 --> 01:35:38,668 He took a whip and smacked their ugly faces! 1174 01:35:39,126 --> 01:35:43,626 That's what He did, you stupid pig! 1175 01:35:48,668 --> 01:35:51,626 And yet, we belonged together. 1176 01:35:51,835 --> 01:35:54,418 We were ready to go down together. 1177 01:35:55,585 --> 01:35:59,168 I see us back in the jungle, together in a boat. 1178 01:35:59,418 --> 01:36:01,710 The whole world belongs to us. 1179 01:36:02,085 --> 01:36:05,001 But Klaus seems to want to fly away. 1180 01:36:05,626 --> 01:36:08,001 Shouldn't I have noticed at the time 1181 01:36:08,210 --> 01:36:11,668 that it was his soul that wanted to flutter away? 1182 01:36:16,418 --> 01:36:20,668 And then I see him with a butterfly, softly, delicately. 1183 01:36:21,126 --> 01:36:23,585 The little creature doesn't want to leave him 1184 01:36:23,793 --> 01:36:26,210 and is so unafraid, so at ease, 1185 01:36:26,418 --> 01:36:28,501 that sometimes, it seems to me 1186 01:36:28,710 --> 01:36:31,918 that Klaus himself turns into a butterfly. 1187 01:36:33,168 --> 01:36:35,793 And everything that weighed on us is gone. 1188 01:36:36,543 --> 01:36:39,460 And even though my mind revolts against it, 1189 01:36:39,668 --> 01:36:42,251 something deep inside me tells me 1190 01:36:42,460 --> 01:36:45,835 this is the way I'd like to keep him in my memory.