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(man) On this track
you will hear screenwriter Jim Uhls
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and novelist Chuck Palahniuk.
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5 days of Hacking / Camping / Lectures
Join May Contain Hackers: MCH2022.org
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Chuck Palahniuk.
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(Chuck) I hate seeing it in theaters 'cause
they never play this part loud enough.
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They never turn it up
like it's supposed to be.
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I had gone on a vacation -
I'd been hiking and camping -
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and I had gotten into a big fight with some
people over noise at night in the woods.
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Some people who had to camp
next to our camp,
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just had to bring some huge radio
up to 3,000 feet on the Pacific Crest Trail
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and have some big blowout party
in the middle of the night.
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And I came back to work at the end
of my vacation with my face just bashed,
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like Jack at the urinal next to his boss.
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My face was so awful and so trashed
that nobody would acknowledge it.
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To acknowledge it, they'd have to find out
something about me they did not want to.
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So, for three months, as my face changed
color, eventually coming back to white,
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people would look at my chest,
and they would talk to my Adam's apple,
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and they'd say, "So, how was
your weekend?
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"Did you do anything interesting?"
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And I'd be looking at them with two huge
black eyes, saying, "No. How about you?"
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It seemed so ludicrous -
if you looked bad enough,
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no one would dare ask you
what you did with your free time.
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And that was the genesis of Fight Club.
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(man) People always ask me
if I know Tyler Durden.
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(Chuck) I thought it was
"...if I know about Tyler Durden".
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That was the line from the book.
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And so, "know about" and "know." I just
saw a real distinction between the two.
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(man) Jim Uhls.
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(Jim) An executive, who wasn't
even going to acquire the book,
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read a script I did
and thought I'd be interested.
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She let me see it -
her name was Elizabeth Robinson.
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She gave me a copy of it before anyone
had acquired it, and helped me track it.
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In fact, she got to Raymond Bongiovanni
one of my scripts, Hard Hearts,
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and he thought that I'd be appropriate
as a screenwriter for it.
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I never actually spoke to him
or met him, unfortunately.
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And I owe him a lot.
I don't know if you actually said that,
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but he died around the beginning
of the process of acquiring the rights
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and me being hired.
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(Chuck) It was funny and sad.
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Raymond was so gung ho on it, and
Raymond was pressuring people to read it.
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And then Raymond was losing weight
at an enormous rate
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and Raymond was obviously really sick,
and then Raymond was dead.
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And then there was his obituary in Variety,
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"Raymond Bongiovanni's last wish
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was that the Chuck Palahniuk novel,
Fight Club, become a movie."
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In a couple of days,
my agent called and said,
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"I just came from Raymond's funeral."
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"You got mentioned eight times
in the eulogy.
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"You can't buy better press than that."
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On one hand it was incredibly sad,
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but on another hand,
it seemed like even from the other side
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Raymond was still pushing.
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So I think Raymond
is really who got all of this started.
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(Jim) To emphasize the disjointed nature
of Jack's remembrance,
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he flashes back and then he flashes back
further inside the flashback.
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(Chuck) Yeah, you got a problem with that?
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I followed it.
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(Jim) So, to continue
with what I was saying,
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the producers at the time
were Ross Bell and Josh Donnen.
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But Josh subsequently left producing
to go back to agenting.
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But Ross Bell was a person
who was sort of the point man.
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He and Kevin McCormick,
who was at the studio, and Laura Ziskin,
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ultimately all got on board
with me being the writer on the project.
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And basically David and I
started at the same time.
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I gave him an outline he looked at,
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and then he was very busy
and had to go do The Game.
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I did the first draft. It wasn't until
the second draft that I got to sit down
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and have a lot of conversations
and input from David.
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I tried to nail as much as I could
in the first draft.
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(Chuck) This condo was supposed to have
been based on a condo that David lived in.
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Have you heard that?
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OK, that coffee table
is now in my living room.
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OK, in a minute
you're gonna see Mike's refrigerator.
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Mike Smith, who has 700 kinds of mustard
and no food. Sorry, Mike.
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You see, if Richard Tuscher, Dr. Richard
Tuscher, had given me barbiturates,
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this book would never have been written.
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So, thank you, Dr. Richard Tuscher.
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(Jim) The one thing I wanted to note
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about the book
is you get all the information at once.
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The very first testicular cancer scene
has Marla in it.
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We know that this character, the narrator -
who we'll call Jack - is a liar,
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we know she's a liar
all in the same scene.
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But I thought it might be better in the film
to learn everything sequentially,
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that the first time we saw him with Bob,
we thought he might have had it.
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And then we've discovered that he goes,
and then he gets addicted to it,
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and then, once we're on board with that,
we find out that Marla...
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We introduce Marla -
she comes into the scene.
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(Chuck) That's the way it has to be done,
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because you would just
be overloading people with too much.
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Did you hear about
when they were shooting this scene?
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(Jim) Somebody... an extra objected to it.
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(Chuck) They were so offended by it, they
walked out and refused to be paid for it.
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But then later came back
and asked for SAG wages.
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At first they thought it was
a legitimate scene about a support group,
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then realized that someone
was a voyeur sitting in on it.
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And, at that point,
they thought it was offensive.
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(Jim) I think it was important that
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the confession
we heard was so painful and real,
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to give weight to the sardonic humor
of what he's doing.
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(Chuck) Yeah.
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You couldn't have done Chloe later on
without doing this.
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(Jim) Right, right.
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(Chuck) The fat harness Meat Loaf wears,
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there was a story
Planet Hollywood wanted it,
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but after Meat Loaf was done with it,
it was so soaked in sweat and so nasty
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that David Fincher said there was no way
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a health code would
allow it inside a restaurant.
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Where did you come up
with the name Cornelius?
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I love those names - Rupert, Cornelius.
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(Jim) I don't know, just things that hit me.
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(Chuck) I can't believe
what a laugh that face gets.
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It's like a montage transitional sequence.
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I really love this.
This seemed to work so well.
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(Jim) Yeah.
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(Chuck) It's funny, 'cause I was not gonna
do sickle-cell anemia in the book,
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'cause I thought people
would scream, "Racism".
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So I was amazed that you did it here.
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I used to work at a hospice as a volunteer,
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and I couldn't do anything
but drive people,
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so I drove them to their support groups
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and sat through them,
to drive them back to the hospice.
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I sat through so many of these
heartbreaking cancer support groups.
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(Jim) I think it's important to note
that this character Jack
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is getting a meaningful
psychological benefit
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from going to these support groups,
albeit not in the way they were intended.
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(Chuck) Right. Exactly.
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And he's not belittling
them or making fun of them in any way.
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And no, I do not want
anymore penguins, OK?
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I got a house full of penguin shit now.
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Oh, the digitalized breath
in the cave sequences,
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did you know that's left over from Titanic?
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It's Titanic breath they reused.
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I thought that was so great.
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This is sad because I know a dozen guys
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who did steroids in the '80s,
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and it's like they're all Bob now.
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They're all so heavy
and they all have back injuries now.
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And it's miserable,
because a friend of mine is named Bob,
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and ended up getting testicular cancer
after I wrote the book.
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So the irony of that was just crushing.
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It's so amazing with the sunglasses. She's
not a person at this point, she's a symbol.
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(Jim) And she seems to have less concern
with concealing the fact that she's a liar.
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(Chuck) She's not even trying to fit in.
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I used to sit in those groups.
I would do the exercises they did.
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I did the power-animal exercise.
I got a penguin that said, "Slide".
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I'm sorry, it's not made up.
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Chloe is based on a woman named Rene
I used to work with,
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who, boom, one day had breast cancer
and had a bandana around her head,
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and then within months was dead, and
it was an incredible shock to everybody.
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She was really a wonderful woman and
it was just appalling how fast it happened.
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I didn't notice
that there's Helena up there, smiling away.
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I thought this was really well done.
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I thought bringing Marla back to a
reoccurring setting, that was established...
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And you do it once again,
which I thought was just terrific.
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You know, so it's throughout the whole
thing rather than just in one place.
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Marla is based on Marla (beep), who
used to beat up my sister Shawn in school.
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So it was pretty much the most despicable
female name I could come up with.
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And Tyler Durden -
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Tyler was based on Tyler,
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a character in an old Walt Disney movie,
Tyler Goes to the Circus,
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and Durden was someone
who I worked with
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who left the company under
a really dark cloud of sexual harassment.
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And so Tyler Durden.
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(Jim) This exchange is important.
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They actually have
this demented, unique thing in common.
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- (Chuck) Finishing each other's sentences?
- I mean the lying about support groups.
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And that exchange, they admit
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they're sharing that fact that
they both know what it's like.
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Because Jack, underneath it,
subconsciously
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is attracted to Marla,
'cause she's similar to him.
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But she's so strange that he can't handle
his attraction for her, so he rejects her.
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(Chuck) Well, I think too, Jack doesn't feel
complete as an adult male.
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He doesn't feel he can commit at this point
to any kind of a lifetime relationship,
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because he's not an adult.
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(Jim) It was good to take this
out of the support-group environment
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and put 'em out in the world,
because it's such a bizarre conversation.
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(Chuck) It's not based
on my friend Gretchen's Laundromat.
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Don't bother suing me, Gretchen.
She was really angry about this part.
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She thought it would make it look
like people stole stuff at her Laundromat.
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Now, did she grab him by the balls there?
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- (Jim) No, I think she stomps on his foot.
- Oh, OK.
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(Jim) I guess it's left
to your imagination, actually.
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I like how this is played,
because you do get the sense
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that he doesn't want
to break the connection with her.
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(Chuck) It's funny, with her in the traffic,
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you almost get the sense
that she's the unreal one.
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Because a lot of people came up to me
and thought Marla was a manifestation,
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that she was completely hallucinated.
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(Jim) The entirety of act one of this film
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really is like a long montage
that explains Jack and his world.
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(Chuck) Where do you see act one ending?
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(Jim) Probably where the condo is blown up
and he meets Tyler in the bar.
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I say probably.
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(Chuck) I know, because I've looked through
it and I've watched it so many times
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to try to figure it, segment it, dissect it,
and it's not a real formula.
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(Jim) No, it isn't really.
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(Chuck) That's what going on book tour is
like. You come away with 700 baby soaps.
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Was that number three Brad?
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- (Jim) I lost count.
- Four. OK.
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The infant went through the windshield.
Three points.
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(Chuck) Was that
supposed to sound so sick?
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Or is this supposed
to be actually ha-ha funny?
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(Jim) I think the intention
is to be sickly funny.
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(Chuck) I know people who do this
and they do it as a defense mechanism,
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so that they don't become emotionally
involved in investigating crashes.
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And it's fantastic that
their humor is so dark.
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Which car company do you work for?
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(Jim) She basically asked the question
that the audience had.
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Didn't get any answers.
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(Chuck) I'm looking for the creamer packets.
They must be going by too fast.
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Is it just me, or when you get seated there,
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do you want to pull that door open,
just to see what will happen?
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- (Jim) I've actually reached for the knob.
- You have? God, it's not just me.
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(Jim) One of the important things about
this scene is, from the beginning until now,
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Jack has the authority of the film,
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because everything we experience
is filtered through his commentary.
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It makes the other characters
seem subordinate to him.
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So what actually needed
to happen here was
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Tyler had to become superior to him
as a character.
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- And the exchange coming up...
- (Chuck) About being clever.
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00:23:15,312 --> 00:23:18,773
..that was an attempt
to transfer the power.
222
00:23:21,776 --> 00:23:25,488
(Chuck) It does, 'cause it really
completely trivializes and mitigates
223
00:23:25,697 --> 00:23:28,033
everything that Jack does well.
224
00:23:32,662 --> 00:23:36,124
(Jim) So at that moment on, Tyler,
225
00:23:36,207 --> 00:23:40,045
even though Jack
will comment about him in narration,
226
00:23:40,712 --> 00:23:44,215
Tyler really remains
in a superior position as a character.
227
00:23:44,299 --> 00:23:49,429
(Chuck) And it undermines
Jack's own value of his own cleverness.
228
00:23:50,347 --> 00:23:53,183
It's been sort of thrown in his face.
229
00:24:05,487 --> 00:24:08,949
Did David tell the story about
how he first approached Brad about it?
230
00:24:09,032 --> 00:24:12,160
About how he sat on Brad's doorstep
for five hours?
231
00:24:12,243 --> 00:24:16,039
The way David told it to me,
when he had first read it,
232
00:24:16,247 --> 00:24:21,211
he was so excited about it that he went
to New York to really pitch it to Brad.
233
00:24:21,378 --> 00:24:23,964
And Brad was filming Meet Joe Black
at the time,
234
00:24:24,047 --> 00:24:28,468
so David went to Brad's doorstep, in the
East Village, somewhere in the Village,
235
00:24:28,551 --> 00:24:32,681
and sat on his doorstep for something like
five hours until 1am,
236
00:24:32,764 --> 00:24:34,265
when Brad came home.
237
00:24:34,557 --> 00:24:36,643
David said, "We gotta make this movie.
238
00:24:36,726 --> 00:24:38,895
"We've been waiting
for something like this."
239
00:24:38,979 --> 00:24:40,605
Brad was exhausted and said,
240
00:24:40,689 --> 00:24:43,650
"I don't want to be reading
or hearing about anything."
241
00:24:43,733 --> 00:24:46,027
David said, "Let's just go out for a beer."
242
00:24:46,111 --> 00:24:49,489
They went out and had a beer
and David pitched it like crazy.
243
00:24:49,572 --> 00:24:51,825
And Brad just finally agreed
to take a look at it,
244
00:24:51,908 --> 00:24:54,744
based on how strong David felt about it.
245
00:24:55,036 --> 00:24:56,246
It's a nice story.
246
00:25:10,427 --> 00:25:13,346
I've got a lot of friends
who work for airlines,
247
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:18,768
and Mike and Janet, they're all telling me
all of these details about throwers
248
00:25:19,227 --> 00:25:22,105
and vibrating luggage and all of it.
249
00:25:26,484 --> 00:25:28,528
(Jim) There was an experimental draft
250
00:25:28,611 --> 00:25:31,531
for about five seconds
that didn't have narration.
251
00:25:32,073 --> 00:25:34,367
I always wanted narration because
252
00:25:34,451 --> 00:25:37,328
the book is funny
and it's told from the first person.
253
00:25:37,454 --> 00:25:40,040
I felt that stuff had to be in,
David did too.
254
00:25:40,123 --> 00:25:42,834
I can't remember
the purpose of the experiment.
255
00:25:42,917 --> 00:25:45,170
It was probably just my own experiment.
256
00:25:45,253 --> 00:25:47,630
Fears that someone
would say we can't do it.
257
00:25:48,548 --> 00:25:50,091
I don't know why.
258
00:25:50,175 --> 00:25:53,762
But there's a feeling that
the studios will be against it,
259
00:25:53,845 --> 00:25:57,807
that something will slow down
the action or something like that.
260
00:25:58,349 --> 00:26:02,729
But in this case it was invaluable
to the telling of the story.
261
00:26:02,812 --> 00:26:04,856
(Chuck) It adds a different level.
262
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:11,154
I was taught that big-voice narration
shouldn't forward the plot.
263
00:26:11,946 --> 00:26:15,033
It should add philosophy,
it should add outlook,
264
00:26:15,158 --> 00:26:19,120
but it should not add plot information -
and it doesn't really.
265
00:26:19,204 --> 00:26:21,748
Without the narration
we'd get the gist of the plot.
266
00:26:21,831 --> 00:26:23,208
We'd be able to follow the movie.
267
00:26:23,291 --> 00:26:25,585
The narration adds sort of a psychology
268
00:26:25,668 --> 00:26:28,505
and sort of a tone,
more than anything else.
269
00:26:34,135 --> 00:26:36,554
I thought I had seen
a version of this scene
270
00:26:36,638 --> 00:26:40,183
where the doorman
dogs him all the way to the phone booth
271
00:26:40,266 --> 00:26:43,645
and speaks over him
while he's speaking on the phone.
272
00:26:43,937 --> 00:26:47,107
And it's a lot more similar
to the scene in the book.
273
00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:49,442
And then this is the scene
I saw at the premiere.
274
00:26:49,526 --> 00:26:51,361
Did you see that other scene?
275
00:26:51,444 --> 00:26:56,908
(Jim) No, I know that that's how
the scene was written originally.
276
00:26:57,242 --> 00:27:00,161
(Chuck) I think they shot it
that other way at one point.
277
00:27:02,580 --> 00:27:05,458
At this point, the doorman
would still be there,
278
00:27:05,542 --> 00:27:08,837
saying vaguely threatening,
vaguely profound things.
279
00:27:15,468 --> 00:27:20,723
This is based on friends who tried to peel
their lino floor by soaking it with gasoline,
280
00:27:20,974 --> 00:27:23,810
and while they scraped up
the gasoline-soaked lino,
281
00:27:23,893 --> 00:27:25,937
their refrigerator compressor clicked on
282
00:27:26,020 --> 00:27:28,690
and it exploded
the whole kitchen out the back door.
283
00:27:28,857 --> 00:27:31,776
It just blasted them out into the back yard.
284
00:27:53,506 --> 00:27:57,427
(Jim) It's interesting that
he called Marla first,
285
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,889
as a possibility of
someone to connect with,
286
00:28:02,223 --> 00:28:04,434
hangs up and then calls Tyler.
287
00:28:04,893 --> 00:28:06,603
(Chuck) Why did he hang up?
288
00:28:08,646 --> 00:28:15,486
(Jim) I think it's a continuation of his fear
of acknowledging his attraction to Marla.
289
00:28:15,570 --> 00:28:16,613
(Chuck) OK.
290
00:28:19,073 --> 00:28:24,120
Or he's somebody
who cannot accept or request help.
291
00:28:24,954 --> 00:28:27,665
You know,
he cannot request help from anybody.
292
00:28:27,749 --> 00:28:30,043
He can't ask Tyler
if he can stay at his house.
293
00:28:30,251 --> 00:28:33,463
And at this point, he is certainly
not gonna ask a woman for help.
294
00:28:44,641 --> 00:28:47,518
(Jim) I love that he's eating
while on the phone.
295
00:28:47,602 --> 00:28:50,104
(Chuck) It makes it less
of a static interaction,
296
00:28:50,188 --> 00:28:52,482
because it's a man talking on a phone -
297
00:28:52,565 --> 00:28:54,776
I mean, what else do you do with this?
298
00:28:55,777 --> 00:28:59,989
(Jim) But it's also his
disregard for etiquette.
299
00:29:20,343 --> 00:29:23,054
It's just, when you buy furniture,
300
00:29:24,847 --> 00:29:28,268
"That's the last sofa I'll need.
Whatever else happens..."
301
00:29:28,351 --> 00:29:32,689
(Chuck) I still remember - getting a sofa
was equivalent to getting married.
302
00:29:33,022 --> 00:29:36,317
It was like one of those hurdles
that made you an adult.
303
00:29:36,401 --> 00:29:39,821
And I just remember buying a sofa
was a huge symbol to me.
304
00:29:47,954 --> 00:29:50,206
You didn't write this interaction, did you?
305
00:29:51,207 --> 00:29:56,671
(Jim) Some of it, but it contains,
in addition, some improvisation.
306
00:29:58,214 --> 00:30:01,718
(Chuck) OK. Long story short,
did you write the Martha Stewart line?
307
00:30:04,345 --> 00:30:07,348
(Jim) I believe that line is,
"Fuck Martha Stewart".
308
00:30:08,808 --> 00:30:11,185
No, no, actually, I didn't.
309
00:30:25,825 --> 00:30:28,536
- Martha Stewart.
- Fuck Martha Stewart.
310
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:32,832
She's polishing the brass on the "Titanic".
It's all going down.
311
00:30:32,915 --> 00:30:37,045
So fuck off with your sofa units
and Strinne green stripe patterns.
312
00:30:37,211 --> 00:30:39,172
I say never be complete.
313
00:30:39,589 --> 00:30:41,591
I say stop being perfect.
314
00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:43,801
I say let's evolve.
315
00:30:44,260 --> 00:30:46,679
Let the chips fall where they may.
316
00:30:48,848 --> 00:30:52,769
But that's me, and I could be wrong.
Maybe it's a terrible tragedy.
317
00:30:52,852 --> 00:30:57,273
(Chuck) I think that's a really nice
paper tiger thing to do, is to take a stand
318
00:30:57,482 --> 00:31:01,235
and then say, "Well, I might be
totally fucked on this, OK?"
319
00:31:03,654 --> 00:31:06,699
So it doesn't sound
so pedantic and strident.
320
00:31:06,783 --> 00:31:09,869
And so it looks like you have a choice
if you accept that stand.
321
00:31:23,049 --> 00:31:25,510
My friends dictated the story.
322
00:31:25,968 --> 00:31:30,473
Almost everything Brad says, Ena said
originally, especially if it's funny.
323
00:31:31,307 --> 00:31:34,936
Almost everything Tyler did,
Jeff did originally.
324
00:31:37,021 --> 00:31:40,024
It's just incredible, my friend Alice
taught me how to make soap.
325
00:31:40,775 --> 00:31:43,236
(Jim) You mean everything
that Marla said in this?
326
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:47,156
- (Chuck) Yeah. Well, actually, everything...
- Or both of them.
327
00:31:48,991 --> 00:31:55,456
(Chuck) Oh, the waiter
stuff - Tyler - Jeff did.
328
00:31:55,998 --> 00:32:00,169
The splicing porno stuff, Mike did.
329
00:32:02,463 --> 00:32:06,092
I was a projectionist in high school
and I never did that,
330
00:32:06,384 --> 00:32:10,012
but it was probably because I never
had access to single frames.
331
00:32:10,096 --> 00:32:13,766
But my friend Mike was projectionist
at the Jefferson Adult Theater
332
00:32:13,850 --> 00:32:17,520
and so he had a huge collection
of those single frames.
333
00:32:18,229 --> 00:32:20,898
And after that,
whenever he got a union job,
334
00:32:20,982 --> 00:32:23,818
he would just splice them in wherever.
335
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,904
So those movies are
still out there in circulation
336
00:32:28,197 --> 00:32:30,408
with Mike's little additions to 'em.
337
00:32:41,169 --> 00:32:43,754
Funny, I used to do this in high school,
338
00:32:43,838 --> 00:32:46,883
and I guess Fincher
used to do this in high school too.
339
00:32:46,966 --> 00:32:52,722
And I still have nightmares, wake up in bed
thinking I forgot a changeover.
340
00:32:55,433 --> 00:32:59,312
Even now, I'm watching movies on TV
and I see the changeover dot,
341
00:32:59,395 --> 00:33:03,399
my whole body will tense up, and I'm not
sure why my whole body is tensed up.
342
00:33:03,483 --> 00:33:06,194
And I realize I'm afraid
I'm gonna miss a changeover.
343
00:33:11,908 --> 00:33:16,162
(Jim) But David and I talked
about the way this information
344
00:33:16,245 --> 00:33:19,665
conventionally would have been conveyed
as he got to know Tyler -
345
00:33:19,749 --> 00:33:23,503
he would show up and
there'd be a scene in a projection booth.
346
00:33:23,586 --> 00:33:26,172
He would show up at the hotel
and see him working.
347
00:33:26,255 --> 00:33:30,009
It seemed like it was a better idea
to just stop the narrative
348
00:33:30,092 --> 00:33:34,180
and then do a little
side informational piece about Tyler,
349
00:33:35,765 --> 00:33:39,769
'cause that fits with his sort of
disjointed consciousness anyway.
350
00:33:41,521 --> 00:33:46,526
(Chuck) And it sort of fits
in dissembling the medium of film
351
00:33:46,609 --> 00:33:49,612
and making fun of it,
sort of from the outside, for a moment.
352
00:34:03,709 --> 00:34:08,339
This part is entirely made up.
None of my friends did any of this part.
353
00:34:22,895 --> 00:34:27,650
This is a scene that gets through a whole
lot of book really quickly and effectively.
354
00:34:27,733 --> 00:34:32,697
So all that philosophy
is distilled on three or four lines.
355
00:34:58,014 --> 00:34:59,640
Oh, I love that.
356
00:35:01,017 --> 00:35:04,854
I laugh at that every time I see this part.
I love that part.
357
00:35:06,314 --> 00:35:09,150
(Jim) What I like about
all of the fist fighting
358
00:35:09,233 --> 00:35:12,278
is it's so realistic sounding and looking.
359
00:35:12,778 --> 00:35:15,990
(Chuck) And it's so clumsy. It's so klutzy.
360
00:35:19,535 --> 00:35:21,203
It's so unheroic.
361
00:35:52,234 --> 00:35:56,572
Now, this is so weird -
drinking out of the same thing
362
00:35:58,032 --> 00:36:02,620
is sort of a shorthand
for a love relationship in so many movies -
363
00:36:02,745 --> 00:36:05,498
that I couldn't believe
they were sharing a beer.
364
00:36:05,581 --> 00:36:09,752
It just seemed like
such a powerful symbol, metaphor.
365
00:36:19,261 --> 00:36:24,684
(Jim) At this point the audience is on board
with them, enjoying the fighting,
366
00:36:24,767 --> 00:36:27,561
or else they're going to be left behind.
367
00:36:29,939 --> 00:36:32,566
This begins a sequence
where parallel story elements
368
00:36:32,650 --> 00:36:35,069
had to progress at the same time
369
00:36:35,695 --> 00:36:39,949
to introduce the house, to introduce
the fact that Jack is moving in,
370
00:36:41,450 --> 00:36:47,289
show them get closer, but also cut to
the escalation of the fighting
371
00:36:47,456 --> 00:36:50,710
until it turns into a movement
of many people.
372
00:36:52,378 --> 00:36:56,132
This is in startling contrast to the condo.
373
00:37:30,291 --> 00:37:35,880
(Jim) It's natural that guys check out a
fight and then discover that it's two friends.
374
00:37:59,570 --> 00:38:04,408
(Chuck) Now, it's interesting,
you cut right from the two of them fighting
375
00:38:04,784 --> 00:38:08,829
to Brad fighting,
Tyler fighting, a total stranger.
376
00:38:08,913 --> 00:38:11,499
You never have to deal
with the transitional scene
377
00:38:11,582 --> 00:38:14,710
where a single guy fighting himself
is approached for a fight.
378
00:38:57,211 --> 00:39:03,259
This was just, of course, a way of getting
the emotional state into the narrative
379
00:39:03,759 --> 00:39:07,429
without having to say,
"I felt so happy, I felt so angry."
380
00:39:07,972 --> 00:39:12,935
It was just a novel way of expressing
emotional state at any one time.
381
00:39:13,853 --> 00:39:15,479
(Jim) Yeah, it's great.
382
00:39:28,617 --> 00:39:30,995
(Tyler) If you could choose,
who would you fight?
383
00:39:31,078 --> 00:39:33,205
I'd fight my boss, probably.
384
00:39:33,289 --> 00:39:34,456
Really?
385
00:39:35,332 --> 00:39:38,711
- Yeah. Why? Who would you fight?
- I'd fight my dad.
386
00:39:39,044 --> 00:39:40,754
I don't know my dad.
387
00:39:40,838 --> 00:39:44,633
I mean, I know him, but he left
when I was, like, six years old.
388
00:39:44,717 --> 00:39:49,305
Married this other woman and had some
other kids. He did this every six years.
389
00:39:49,388 --> 00:39:53,225
- He moves city and starts a new family.
- Fucker's setting up franchises.
390
00:39:53,309 --> 00:39:57,646
(Chuck) That "franchise" line always
gets a laugh when I read it from the book.
391
00:39:58,272 --> 00:40:00,649
People really get that instantly.
392
00:40:00,858 --> 00:40:05,487
And you take it a step further and make
a connection to franchising fight clubs,
393
00:40:05,571 --> 00:40:07,615
which I felt was really, really sweet.
394
00:40:08,741 --> 00:40:14,788
(Jim) This was a section of the book
where all of the confession
395
00:40:14,872 --> 00:40:17,833
about the relationship with the father
was Jack's,
396
00:40:17,917 --> 00:40:23,088
but we decided to have
both of them have... they split it up,
397
00:40:23,172 --> 00:40:27,676
so that it's emphasizing
the similar background.
398
00:41:10,552 --> 00:41:15,140
(Chuck) It's funny, I wrote Fight Club
in a lot of these meetings exactly like this,
399
00:41:15,224 --> 00:41:19,353
where I could sit there and write away
when people thought I was taking notes.
400
00:41:32,366 --> 00:41:36,412
And that sort of fake camaraderie
just still makes me cringe.
401
00:42:19,455 --> 00:42:21,540
(Jim) A bar is the archetypal place where
402
00:42:21,623 --> 00:42:24,209
you're supposed to fight
and get into a brawl,
403
00:42:24,293 --> 00:42:31,175
so it's interesting that a bunch of men go
to the basement and have a secret brawl.
404
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:37,056
(Chuck) Well, I thought alcohol
had to be a real key part of it,
405
00:42:39,141 --> 00:42:43,729
because of the reason, you know, so many
people have to have alcohol to have sex,
406
00:42:43,812 --> 00:42:47,066
so it seemed natural
that people would have to have alcohol
407
00:42:47,149 --> 00:42:49,693
to do something like fight the first time.
408
00:43:24,144 --> 00:43:27,106
It's funny, I remember
the day I wrote the rules,
409
00:43:27,189 --> 00:43:30,025
I just needed, like,
eight transitional devices
410
00:43:30,109 --> 00:43:34,822
to splice together really short, tiny scenes
411
00:43:34,905 --> 00:43:37,324
and make a short story
out of these scenes.
412
00:43:37,616 --> 00:43:41,120
I thought, "Non-fiction transitional device -
how about a rule?"
413
00:43:41,203 --> 00:43:43,205
So the rules became the transition.
414
00:43:43,288 --> 00:43:46,333
You could go anywhere
if you came back to a rule.
415
00:44:30,752 --> 00:44:35,048
A guy came to Fight Club for the first time,
his ass was a wad of cookie dough.
416
00:44:35,132 --> 00:44:40,012
(Chuck) Why'd you make it "cookie dough"?
It was "white bread" in the book.
417
00:44:40,262 --> 00:44:42,139
Did you think that was racist?
418
00:44:42,222 --> 00:44:46,435
(Jim) No, I didn't. I guess "cookie dough"
just sounded funnier to me.
419
00:45:24,681 --> 00:45:28,769
That scene, actually,
had Jack say, "I could take him."
420
00:45:28,852 --> 00:45:31,605
(Chuck) Right, I remember
that in the screenplay.
421
00:45:31,980 --> 00:45:34,358
I didn't like that 'cause
I thought it sort of took
422
00:45:34,441 --> 00:45:36,860
the hostility of Fight Club
out of Fight Club.
423
00:45:36,944 --> 00:45:39,780
And I was glad that they cut that line,
424
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:45,410
'cause I wanted to show the hostility
being vented and exhausted in Fight Club
425
00:45:45,494 --> 00:45:47,704
and not coming out into the real world.
426
00:45:47,788 --> 00:45:51,208
(Jim) Right. Well, it wasn't intended
to be hostile,
427
00:45:51,291 --> 00:45:57,714
it was intended to be more...
he knew that about himself.
428
00:46:57,107 --> 00:47:00,402
- Could this house look any worse?
- (Chuck) No, but it's funny.
429
00:47:02,487 --> 00:47:04,865
It spooked my friends and I
who were at the set
430
00:47:04,948 --> 00:47:07,868
because it looks so much
like my friend Jeff's house.
431
00:47:07,951 --> 00:47:11,872
It was based in the book on Jeff's house.
The kitchen is just like Jeff's.
432
00:47:11,955 --> 00:47:15,334
(Jim) I remember you told me that
when I was on the set with you.
433
00:47:15,417 --> 00:47:17,127
(Chuck) It was uncanny.
434
00:47:21,798 --> 00:47:25,177
And this whole sequence here,
where Marla gets saved,
435
00:47:25,385 --> 00:47:29,848
is based on my friend Kevin,
who's on step 11 of his 12 steps,
436
00:47:30,140 --> 00:47:33,935
and his girlfriend OD'd at a downtown
hotel and he couldn't go save her,
437
00:47:34,019 --> 00:47:36,772
so he called me
and asked if I would go down
438
00:47:36,855 --> 00:47:38,940
and collect her and get her to a hospital.
439
00:47:39,441 --> 00:47:43,737
And so, I ended up dragging her out of the
hospital just like Marla is getting drug out.
440
00:47:44,946 --> 00:47:48,075
It's sort of sweet
watching it on the screen.
441
00:47:48,158 --> 00:47:50,118
At that time, it wasn't quite so funny.
442
00:47:51,286 --> 00:47:53,455
- Really?
- It's for men only.
443
00:47:53,580 --> 00:47:54,539
Like the testicle thing?
444
00:47:54,623 --> 00:47:59,378
That is the funniest line in the movie.
I love that - "Like the testicle thing?"
445
00:48:35,705 --> 00:48:37,332
(Jim) He can't even hang up on her.
446
00:48:39,334 --> 00:48:41,670
(Chuck) In a way,
he never wants to cut that cord.
447
00:48:41,753 --> 00:48:44,464
He doesn't want to offend her outright.
448
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,245
It's funny how you never
used to see condoms.
449
00:49:16,163 --> 00:49:19,166
I mean, they're almost
like this antiquated thing.
450
00:49:19,249 --> 00:49:23,003
And suddenly now, in the last 10 years,
they're everywhere -
451
00:49:23,128 --> 00:49:26,256
in the streets, on the sidewalks,
on the bus.
452
00:49:26,631 --> 00:49:30,010
There's just condoms
everywhere outside, thrown away.
453
00:49:34,598 --> 00:49:39,352
(Jim) This is the first of several scenes
that have to work on two levels,
454
00:49:41,021 --> 00:49:45,108
where it seems as if it's -
to us, and to Jack -
455
00:49:46,401 --> 00:49:49,654
that he's just annoyed that she's here,
telling her to go.
456
00:49:49,738 --> 00:49:54,284
And she gets mad at him
for acting that way toward her.
457
00:49:54,576 --> 00:49:59,831
But in reality, of course, Marla knows.
Marla sees them as the same person.
458
00:50:01,041 --> 00:50:04,753
And the person she made love to last night
is rejecting her the next morning.
459
00:50:34,824 --> 00:50:38,537
(Chuck) I thought this countdown thing
was a really nice transition,
460
00:50:38,620 --> 00:50:41,957
a way of keeping the dialog going
between the two.
461
00:50:43,041 --> 00:50:44,918
(Jim) That was David's idea.
462
00:50:47,212 --> 00:50:49,172
(Marla)... five, four, three...
463
00:51:06,565 --> 00:51:07,899
(Chuck) I thought she had a really sort of
464
00:51:07,983 --> 00:51:11,111
fucked-up Lucille
Ball quality in a lot of this.
465
00:51:18,535 --> 00:51:21,746
I couldn't believe that you kept the dildo
in this scene either.
466
00:51:32,674 --> 00:51:33,758
This part, I love.
467
00:51:33,842 --> 00:51:38,054
Anytime you get a character to
talk about themselves in the third person,
468
00:51:38,138 --> 00:51:42,434
they can say the most appalling things
because they're talking about themselves.
469
00:51:42,767 --> 00:51:45,437
Otherwise, you completely lose sympathy,
470
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:50,609
so she can completely reveal herself
and belittle herself,
471
00:51:51,026 --> 00:51:54,446
and tell the truth about herself
because it's third person.
472
00:51:54,821 --> 00:51:59,075
- You have every reason to live.
- She's infectious human waste!
473
00:52:11,504 --> 00:52:15,050
(Chuck) Is that liposuction fat
in the fridge in the background?
474
00:52:16,176 --> 00:52:18,386
(Jim) Well, actually, I don't know.
475
00:52:54,172 --> 00:52:56,549
I haven't been fucked like that
since grade school.
476
00:52:56,633 --> 00:52:59,302
- (Chuck) Did you come up with that line?
- No, it's David's.
477
00:52:59,928 --> 00:53:02,806
(Chuck) I heard that the studio
begged him to change it back
478
00:53:02,889 --> 00:53:05,183
'cause they thought
that was even more offensive.
479
00:53:07,894 --> 00:53:10,605
(Jim) In the book, she said,
"I want to have your abortion."
480
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,527
(Chuck) At the publishing party, all my
friends had these buttons made that said,
481
00:53:15,610 --> 00:53:17,779
"I wanna have Tyler Durden's abortion."
482
00:53:17,862 --> 00:53:20,824
It was, like,
300 people all wearing this button.
483
00:53:22,867 --> 00:53:25,662
You say anything about me
or what goes on in this house
484
00:53:25,745 --> 00:53:28,039
to her or anybody, we're done.
485
00:53:29,499 --> 00:53:31,418
- Now, promise me.
- OK.
486
00:53:31,584 --> 00:53:33,211
- You promise?
- I promise.
487
00:53:33,294 --> 00:53:35,755
- Promise.
- I just said, I promise! What...
488
00:53:35,839 --> 00:53:38,174
That's three times you promised.
489
00:53:41,928 --> 00:53:46,349
(Chuck) So that's based
on the interaction with Christ.
490
00:53:47,308 --> 00:53:50,895
- Who is it that betrays Christ three times?
- (Jim) Peter.
491
00:53:57,485 --> 00:53:59,738
(Chuck) I thought it was ironic
that the movie that
492
00:53:59,821 --> 00:54:03,324
shows violence honestly and frankly
493
00:54:03,783 --> 00:54:07,495
has all the sex occur offstage.
I thought that was terrific.
494
00:54:17,172 --> 00:54:20,717
(Jim) Tyler and Jack have created
kind of a monk-like existence.
495
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,678
They've honed a Spartan way of living.
496
00:54:24,345 --> 00:54:30,435
Marla's invasion of it is more threatening
even than her invasion of support groups.
497
00:54:30,518 --> 00:54:35,899
Because if she can cheapen and belittle
Fight Club, he's lost everything.
498
00:54:40,945 --> 00:54:43,865
But also, subconsciously,
499
00:54:44,824 --> 00:54:47,118
he wants to be Marla's lover.
500
00:54:47,827 --> 00:54:49,037
He's actually jealous of both of 'em
501
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,956
because he also wants
all of Tyler's attention.
502
00:55:01,216 --> 00:55:04,761
(Chuck) It's funny
because haikus seem like the most cliché,
503
00:55:05,428 --> 00:55:08,264
quote, unquote,
Zen thing that you could have.
504
00:55:08,348 --> 00:55:13,019
And so, I was trying
to make fun of Zen enlightenment
505
00:55:13,102 --> 00:55:18,733
and half-understood, half-baked sort of
Zen ideas that people keep expounding,
506
00:55:19,192 --> 00:55:22,612
so I wrote the worst haikus
I could possibly think of.
507
00:55:24,948 --> 00:55:26,199
I always write in public.
508
00:55:26,282 --> 00:55:30,161
I just wrote two chapters
at Macy's over here in Century City.
509
00:55:30,245 --> 00:55:36,376
I need that distraction, or I get too bogged
down and nothing is ever good enough,
510
00:55:37,085 --> 00:55:39,671
unless something is always distracting me.
511
00:55:39,754 --> 00:55:45,260
(Jim) I have to be completely secluded
like a monk and have total concentration,
512
00:55:45,885 --> 00:55:48,429
writing in an office away from home.
513
00:55:49,597 --> 00:55:52,851
(Chuck) Everything is freehand,
done with a pen and notebooks.
514
00:55:52,934 --> 00:55:58,857
But I do have one of those...
What's it called? Final Edit... Final Draft.
515
00:55:58,982 --> 00:56:04,112
I've got Final Draft, so I can do it
the professional way someday.
516
00:56:21,713 --> 00:56:23,590
- The dynamite...
- Dynamite?
517
00:56:23,673 --> 00:56:27,385
...left a residue of
ammonium oxalate potassium perchloride.
518
00:56:37,812 --> 00:56:40,773
My little brother, Matt,
came up with all of this,
519
00:56:40,857 --> 00:56:45,987
all the formulas for dynamite
and plastique and napalm.
520
00:56:46,487 --> 00:56:49,198
He's a chemical engineer for Chevron.
521
00:56:49,824 --> 00:56:53,912
So he came up with all of these details
when he was visiting me one weekend.
522
00:57:02,128 --> 00:57:05,924
Now, I want to know, see the phone?
The phones in this house?
523
00:57:06,674 --> 00:57:08,718
How did Tyler star-69 him?
524
00:57:10,178 --> 00:57:13,932
They're all rotary dial phones.
There isn't a push-button phone.
525
00:57:14,015 --> 00:57:16,100
(Jim) You're not supposed to point that out.
526
00:57:16,184 --> 00:57:18,269
Excuse me, Dr. Continuity.
527
00:57:22,523 --> 00:57:26,945
(Jim) What's interesting is he's covering
for himself, fearing he's a suspect.
528
00:57:27,028 --> 00:57:30,865
And in reality, he did do it
and doesn't even know he did it.
529
00:57:31,115 --> 00:57:34,661
(Chuck) Well, that's just too much.
I can't understand that one.
530
00:57:35,536 --> 00:57:39,040
On another level he's trying
to rationalize blowing it up to himself,
531
00:57:39,123 --> 00:57:41,542
while he's denying blowing it up.
532
00:57:51,552 --> 00:57:55,515
Except for their humping, Tyler and Marla
were never in the same room.
533
00:57:55,598 --> 00:57:58,476
My parents pulled
this exact same act for years.
534
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:01,229
(Chuck) My mother
was really offended by that line.
535
00:58:45,398 --> 00:58:51,195
(Jim) To the audience, this is a continuation
of an arc that Marla is trying to add Jack
536
00:58:51,279 --> 00:58:54,866
as an additional lover
while she's having sex with Tyler.
537
00:58:56,993 --> 00:58:59,370
But in reality,
it's one and the same person.
538
00:58:59,454 --> 00:59:00,538
(Chuck) Right.
539
00:59:09,630 --> 00:59:13,843
There's an undercurrent,
like her alluding to him wearing the dress,
540
00:59:13,926 --> 00:59:17,638
her asking if it was a man or a woman
that kissed his hand.
541
00:59:18,014 --> 00:59:23,561
You know, in a way, she's reinforcing
this possible homoerotic thing on the side.
542
00:59:33,988 --> 00:59:35,490
Gotta get off
543
00:59:36,407 --> 00:59:37,742
Thanks. Bye.
544
00:59:37,825 --> 00:59:42,121
Gotta get off of this merry-go-round
545
00:59:42,622 --> 00:59:45,833
David was saying, "Thank God
Valley of the Dolls was a Fox movie."
546
00:59:45,917 --> 00:59:48,920
Or otherwise, there's no way
they could have used that song.
547
00:59:53,674 --> 00:59:56,260
Just for the record, I've got a pitch.
548
00:59:56,344 --> 01:00:02,100
Amy and Dennis, my friends who run
the website "chuckpalahniuk.com",
549
01:00:02,391 --> 01:00:06,187
which I am not promoting,
because it's about me...
550
01:00:06,521 --> 01:00:10,024
But what the hell? Amy and Dennis
really want it pitched, so...
551
01:00:27,041 --> 01:00:30,545
(Jim) The book had them
552
01:00:30,711 --> 01:00:34,882
getting liposuction fat
from Marla's mother.
553
01:00:37,009 --> 01:00:42,640
(Chuck) This is perfect. This is fast.
This is not that whole side trip.
554
01:00:45,226 --> 01:00:48,312
It's funny because this whole part
came from my sister.
555
01:00:48,396 --> 01:00:50,731
My friend Alice
taught me how to make soap.
556
01:00:50,815 --> 01:00:53,067
That afternoon,
my sister called from Canada
557
01:00:53,151 --> 01:00:54,861
to say how the Canadian government
558
01:00:54,944 --> 01:00:58,447
couldn't incinerate liposuction fat
fast enough,
559
01:00:58,614 --> 01:01:02,076
and it was all piling up in trucks
outside of Calgary.
560
01:01:02,243 --> 01:01:05,121
And I thought,
"Why don't they just make it into soap?"
561
01:01:05,204 --> 01:01:07,874
I can't believe what a bashing I've taken,
562
01:01:07,957 --> 01:01:12,086
in terms of people claiming
that I'm making fun of the Holocaust,
563
01:01:13,254 --> 01:01:16,299
because I never
really made that connection.
564
01:01:16,924 --> 01:01:20,219
But a lot of other people
sure grabbed hold of that.
565
01:01:21,345 --> 01:01:24,849
(Jim) Well, I mean,
I think that's quite a leap to make,
566
01:01:24,932 --> 01:01:29,937
because they're stealing fat that has been
voluntarily sucked off someone's body.
567
01:01:33,691 --> 01:01:36,277
(Chuck) And it's funny,
that "Boy Scout" line
568
01:01:36,444 --> 01:01:39,447
had to acknowledge that
Tyler had a background
569
01:01:39,530 --> 01:01:41,199
and knew how to make this stuff.
570
01:01:41,532 --> 01:01:43,993
So the "Boy Scout" line was
just a throwaway way to establish
571
01:01:44,076 --> 01:01:46,621
his nebulous authority.
572
01:01:50,917 --> 01:01:54,545
Ancient peoples found clothes got cleaner
when washed in one part of the river.
573
01:01:56,339 --> 01:01:59,634
(Chuck) And this old Hindu legend
about the human sacrifices
574
01:01:59,717 --> 01:02:03,596
is really what it's based on -
it's a great old story.
575
01:02:07,183 --> 01:02:09,185
This is lye. The crucial ingredient.
576
01:02:09,268 --> 01:02:14,398
Once it mixed with the melted body fat,
a soapy discharge crept into the river.
577
01:02:28,955 --> 01:02:34,919
(Chuck) Now, Julie, who did the make-up,
she made all of these kiss burns.
578
01:02:35,503 --> 01:02:38,547
She was gonna bring them to us
so we could wear them to the premiere
579
01:02:38,631 --> 01:02:42,593
and we could all have Tyler's kiss
on our hands, but she forgot.
580
01:02:50,810 --> 01:02:54,105
(Jim) One thing I like
about how this translated to film
581
01:02:54,563 --> 01:02:59,277
is that Tyler comes across
as very dangerous, actually.
582
01:02:59,777 --> 01:03:03,781
And he's deadly serious about his ideas.
583
01:03:15,543 --> 01:03:18,921
(Chuck) In a way, this is sort of
a real turning point in the movie,
584
01:03:19,005 --> 01:03:24,719
where it stops being so much a comedy
as it is a drama.
585
01:03:28,889 --> 01:03:33,227
And the extended metaphor
about fathers and God,
586
01:03:35,479 --> 01:03:39,358
boy, I don't know, that has really
struck a chord with so many people,
587
01:03:39,567 --> 01:03:41,444
and I really have to wonder,
588
01:03:42,069 --> 01:03:46,824
people without a presence of a father,
if they can ever have a presence of God.
589
01:03:47,366 --> 01:03:51,579
Or is it just gonna be a projection of every
way that their father has failed them?
590
01:03:53,331 --> 01:03:55,875
And this is such a sweet place to put it in
591
01:03:55,958 --> 01:03:59,503
because you have an intense idea
on top of an intense interaction.
592
01:04:20,232 --> 01:04:23,736
(Jim) I like the line from the book,
"This isn't a weekend retreat."
593
01:04:23,819 --> 01:04:26,322
Within the parameters of civilization,
594
01:04:26,405 --> 01:04:29,658
we put bandages on things
that are wrong with us,
595
01:04:29,742 --> 01:04:34,080
and a weekend retreat,
we go to that for feeling too empty.
596
01:04:34,705 --> 01:04:39,752
And Tyler, his vision
is that civilization itself
597
01:04:39,835 --> 01:04:43,172
is the cancer
that has to be cut away ultimately.
598
01:04:45,841 --> 01:04:50,179
(Chuck) It's funny because Fight Club, in a
way, is a seminar or a weekend retreat.
599
01:04:50,262 --> 01:04:53,599
It's a way to have two hours of chaos
600
01:04:53,724 --> 01:04:57,520
that you can pencil in to your schedule
and walk away from.
601
01:04:58,813 --> 01:05:02,149
(Jim) Which is why Tyler eventually
has to make it go to Project Mayhem.
602
01:05:02,233 --> 01:05:03,734
(Chuck) Exactly. Yeah.
603
01:05:06,028 --> 01:05:08,114
This is my worst nightmare,
604
01:05:08,197 --> 01:05:12,743
was that I would somehow leave a page
of a sex scene in the copy machine at work
605
01:05:12,827 --> 01:05:16,497
the night before workshop,
and that someone would find it.
606
01:05:26,674 --> 01:05:32,096
(Jim) I wanted the boss to say, "Make
a managerial decision" condescendingly,
607
01:05:32,179 --> 01:05:37,685
because it sets him up to be blindsided
with this unexpected attack.
608
01:05:46,610 --> 01:05:49,572
(Chuck) And it's sweet
because it allows, once more,
609
01:05:49,655 --> 01:05:52,116
a character to talk about themselves
610
01:05:52,199 --> 01:05:56,787
in the third person subjective, just in case.
611
01:05:58,747 --> 01:06:03,335
But to talk about it in such detail
that you know that it's not subjective.
612
01:06:14,555 --> 01:06:18,350
Now, I was curious.
Why did you retain this next scene,
613
01:06:18,434 --> 01:06:20,019
the breast examination scene?
614
01:06:20,102 --> 01:06:22,021
Just because it's intimate or...
615
01:06:23,564 --> 01:06:26,692
(Jim) Well, this is another scene
that works on two levels.
616
01:06:28,235 --> 01:06:32,490
On one level, to the audience who doesn't
know yet the secret of the movie,
617
01:06:32,573 --> 01:06:39,163
it's Marla continuing
to make a play for the other guy.
618
01:06:40,289 --> 01:06:43,584
She's Tyler's lover,
but she's still making a play for Jack.
619
01:06:43,667 --> 01:06:49,757
But the emotional reality for Marla is,
this is one and the same person,
620
01:06:50,257 --> 01:06:54,011
and she's trying to connect with him
on a more sensitive level.
621
01:06:54,094 --> 01:06:56,222
Showing her vulnerability.
622
01:06:56,597 --> 01:07:01,435
And in the daytime, which is unusual
for them, so she turns it into a seduction.
623
01:07:16,951 --> 01:07:22,414
(Chuck) It's interesting how Helena's look
sort of gradually softens.
624
01:07:22,957 --> 01:07:27,044
From the first time we see her
completely inhuman in sunglasses,
625
01:07:27,586 --> 01:07:30,339
and her hair is gradually softer and softer,
626
01:07:30,422 --> 01:07:35,427
until, you know, she comes up in the cloth
coat in that really heartbreaking scene.
627
01:08:25,853 --> 01:08:31,191
(Jim) The fact that Bob
is involved with Fight Club is significant
628
01:08:31,275 --> 01:08:34,653
because it reinforces
the idea that Fight Club
629
01:08:35,863 --> 01:08:41,243
is more emotionally or psychologically
empowering than a support group.
630
01:08:41,869 --> 01:08:45,122
Because Bob really does have cancer
and really is dying.
631
01:08:45,205 --> 01:08:47,791
And he's better than he's ever been.
632
01:08:50,878 --> 01:08:55,716
(Chuck) And in a way,
Bob going to this other support group
633
01:08:55,883 --> 01:08:58,844
and having
a whole different relationship with Tyler
634
01:09:00,012 --> 01:09:03,057
is the equivalent
of Marla stealing Tyler away.
635
01:09:03,390 --> 01:09:06,101
Bob, in his way,
is stealing Fight Club away,
636
01:09:06,393 --> 01:09:10,731
because now we get the idea that Fight
Club is doing things behind Jack's back.
637
01:09:23,410 --> 01:09:28,165
(Jim) I think it's great that they're
fighting, 'cause we saw them in the beginning
638
01:09:28,248 --> 01:09:32,628
hugging and doing the normal support
group thing, and here they are fighting.
639
01:09:32,711 --> 01:09:36,131
(Chuck) And now we see a character
that was just pathetic
640
01:09:36,298 --> 01:09:41,011
suddenly a victor
and inflicting injury on someone else.
641
01:10:17,548 --> 01:10:19,883
It's funny because, early on,
642
01:10:19,967 --> 01:10:25,514
some reviews really thought
that these speeches were didactic
643
01:10:25,764 --> 01:10:28,142
and heavy-handed and soapboxy,
644
01:10:28,726 --> 01:10:33,021
but I just feel like a character
has to say something.
645
01:10:33,313 --> 01:10:37,693
Even if it's a stupid something,
a character has to stand for something,
646
01:10:37,860 --> 01:10:40,738
and has to risk saying the wrong thing.
647
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:46,493
Even if it's just so somebody else can step
forward and say, "Oh, that's full of shit."
648
01:10:46,702 --> 01:10:48,912
At least they're saying something,
649
01:10:48,996 --> 01:10:52,708
and, you know,
taking responsibility for their viewpoint,
650
01:10:53,250 --> 01:10:56,462
which is really
what Tyler's speeches were about -
651
01:10:57,838 --> 01:11:03,177
expressing himself even more so than
sort of coming up with a vision or a dream.
652
01:11:17,065 --> 01:11:18,776
(Jim) His performance of it is so good,
653
01:11:18,859 --> 01:11:24,239
it's hard to pass it off as being didactic.
654
01:11:25,866 --> 01:11:29,661
(Chuck) And it's a nice lull,
it's a nice setup to what happens next,
655
01:11:30,370 --> 01:11:33,081
because what happens next is so intense.
656
01:12:35,686 --> 01:12:39,314
It's funny because I think
there's something so empowering
657
01:12:39,606 --> 01:12:43,610
in being able to sort of
throw yourself away like this
658
01:12:44,194 --> 01:12:47,406
and just laugh
and accept what is happening.
659
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:51,118
You know, that seems
so much of Tyler's message.
660
01:12:52,369 --> 01:12:55,664
(Jim) Yes, he's able to get beaten up
661
01:12:55,747 --> 01:12:58,709
and still ultimately get
what he wants from the person.
662
01:12:58,792 --> 01:13:03,463
(Chuck) And realize
that allowing himself to be beaten
663
01:13:03,755 --> 01:13:06,174
is sort of a service to Lou.
664
01:13:06,592 --> 01:13:10,512
It's letting Lou express something
and get something out of his system,
665
01:13:10,596 --> 01:13:12,723
and, you know, it takes two people.
666
01:13:14,725 --> 01:13:19,062
And so it's sort of perfect that this
is before the project assignment,
667
01:13:19,187 --> 01:13:21,648
where they go out to lose a fight.
668
01:13:43,921 --> 01:13:46,673
It's funny, when so many people said
669
01:13:46,757 --> 01:13:49,176
they thought for sure
that fight clubs would start,
670
01:13:49,551 --> 01:13:54,890
I don't think anybody is gonna want
to be exposed to the blood of strangers.
671
01:13:55,807 --> 01:13:58,143
I thought that would be the big issue.
672
01:13:59,770 --> 01:14:03,106
The first time I saw this, I was just freaked
673
01:14:03,190 --> 01:14:05,984
when Brad said,
"You don't know where I've been."
674
01:14:06,068 --> 01:14:09,655
Because the whole
blood phobia thing is just right there.
675
01:14:13,367 --> 01:14:17,788
(Jim) Not only has he gotten what he wants
by allowing himself to be beaten up,
676
01:14:19,206 --> 01:14:23,543
but his Zen-like endurance of the pain
elevates him, I think, to...
677
01:14:23,877 --> 01:14:29,466
This is the beginning of elevating him to
a messianic level with the other members.
678
01:14:30,300 --> 01:14:32,511
(Chuck) It is a real martyrdom thing.
679
01:15:00,288 --> 01:15:03,208
It's funny, everybody loves this sequence -
680
01:15:04,751 --> 01:15:06,294
its humor.
681
01:15:16,471 --> 01:15:18,473
OK, I love this part.
682
01:15:19,057 --> 01:15:23,186
I can't believe when he sprays the Bible.
I mean, this is just like...
683
01:15:23,270 --> 01:15:26,106
Even I cringe when I see that.
684
01:16:08,148 --> 01:16:12,152
- You're up for review.
- I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
685
01:16:13,945 --> 01:16:17,866
(Jim) I wanted him to say
one of those narration lines aloud
686
01:16:18,492 --> 01:16:20,869
to show the level of contempt
687
01:16:21,661 --> 01:16:24,915
for everyone around him
by this point in the movie.
688
01:17:14,172 --> 01:17:19,761
(Chuck) You know, it's Edward's ability
to do this that makes so much...
689
01:17:20,137 --> 01:17:23,223
I mean, 80% of making
the whole thing plausible
690
01:17:23,473 --> 01:17:26,268
is his ability to prove it in this scene.
691
01:17:40,907 --> 01:17:42,742
In a really sick way,
692
01:17:44,452 --> 01:17:48,415
"This is how Jerry Lewis would do it
if Jerry Lewis was doing these things."
693
01:18:04,431 --> 01:18:09,853
I thought this was more about breaking
things than it was about hurting himself,
694
01:18:10,437 --> 01:18:13,231
because it's just so much fun to bust stuff.
695
01:18:13,315 --> 01:18:15,692
You can bust it in a big way.
696
01:18:18,069 --> 01:18:20,614
And then, to use blood like a prop,
697
01:18:22,032 --> 01:18:27,787
to get past the fact that it's your own
blood and be able to just really toss it off.
698
01:18:53,355 --> 01:18:58,276
(Jim) What's funny about that moment
is he's leaving with a shopping cart.
699
01:18:59,444 --> 01:19:03,156
How did he get a shopping cart
in a place of business?
700
01:19:03,406 --> 01:19:07,369
- I don't think you even ask that question.
- (Chuck) No, I never thought about that.
701
01:19:10,997 --> 01:19:13,333
I always missed it until I knew,
702
01:19:13,416 --> 01:19:19,631
but this is the seminary student
whose Bible got sprayed.
703
01:19:34,521 --> 01:19:35,605
I can't believe how many guys
704
01:19:36,773 --> 01:19:38,275
have said that scene
705
01:19:38,358 --> 01:19:42,279
was the scene that really choked them up,
where the two guys hug.
706
01:19:42,362 --> 01:19:46,574
You know, that really hits a chord in a lot
of really young guys. They love that scene.
707
01:20:02,340 --> 01:20:07,429
(Jim) I like the totally random quality
of the things they select to do.
708
01:20:11,599 --> 01:20:13,518
It's truly mayhem.
709
01:20:16,938 --> 01:20:19,065
(Chuck) It's sort of focus-less.
710
01:20:19,983 --> 01:20:23,069
It doesn't really victimize
any certain person.
711
01:20:24,904 --> 01:20:29,367
They're not attacks on people
as much as they are attacks on property,
712
01:20:29,451 --> 01:20:31,494
primarily luxury property.
713
01:20:33,705 --> 01:20:36,124
Why did they leave that one?
714
01:20:37,042 --> 01:20:39,878
Why did they leave that? Why not that car?
715
01:20:42,047 --> 01:20:46,217
And it's funny, one guy wrote down
all the names that are listed of cities
716
01:20:46,301 --> 01:20:48,803
and figured out
that it is Wilmington, Delaware.
717
01:20:49,471 --> 01:20:53,266
Because all the cities that are cited
are Delaware cities around Wilmington.
718
01:20:54,059 --> 01:20:57,520
When they talk about Penns Grove
and all those little towns.
719
01:20:57,604 --> 01:21:02,817
(Jim) We originally wanted to
positively identify the city as Wilmington
720
01:21:03,026 --> 01:21:06,988
'cause that's where all the credit card
companies are incorporated.
721
01:21:53,660 --> 01:21:57,497
In the book, this was Jack
who did this to the clerk.
722
01:21:59,624 --> 01:22:06,047
But it seemed like he's not that far along,
723
01:22:06,131 --> 01:22:10,051
he's not quite as on board
enough to do that.
724
01:22:13,179 --> 01:22:17,475
Perhaps it'd be better to have him
witness Tyler doing it to somebody.
725
01:22:17,642 --> 01:22:21,020
(Chuck) Yeah, he stays a lot more
of a sympathetic character by doing it.
726
01:22:22,689 --> 01:22:24,232
(Jim) And by now,
727
01:22:26,025 --> 01:22:30,280
it's important to start
to show a dissociation beginning.
728
01:22:31,698 --> 01:22:36,119
(Chuck) And it's funny because so many
people identify with Tyler in this scene,
729
01:22:36,327 --> 01:22:38,788
and they see the scene as empowering.
730
01:22:38,872 --> 01:22:40,832
People are always coming
to me and saying
731
01:22:40,915 --> 01:22:44,544
this is the chapter that made them
go and get their master's degree.
732
01:22:44,794 --> 01:22:46,671
They really loved this scene.
733
01:22:48,673 --> 01:22:52,218
More people identify with Tyler
at this point than with Jack.
734
01:22:52,302 --> 01:22:54,596
(Jim) Yeah, that's true. That's true.
735
01:22:59,392 --> 01:23:02,520
- So you need more schooling.
- Too much school.
736
01:23:02,687 --> 01:23:04,481
- Would you rather be dead?
- No, please...
737
01:23:04,564 --> 01:23:08,902
You'd rather die here, on your knees,
in the back of a convenience store?
738
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:11,863
(whimpers) No. Please, no.
739
01:23:15,241 --> 01:23:17,243
I'm keeping your license.
740
01:23:18,244 --> 01:23:21,164
Gonna check in on you.
I know where you live.
741
01:23:22,081 --> 01:23:25,168
If you're not on your way to being
a veterinarian in six weeks,
742
01:23:25,251 --> 01:23:26,586
you will be dead.
743
01:23:34,469 --> 01:23:35,887
(Chuck) Now, was that improv?
744
01:23:36,596 --> 01:23:38,139
(Jim) Yeah, that was.
745
01:24:17,387 --> 01:24:19,806
(Chuck) My friend Bryan explained
the whole process of
746
01:24:19,889 --> 01:24:24,310
drilling vacuum tubes, the VDTs,
747
01:24:24,394 --> 01:24:28,731
so that you could fill them with gasoline.
That was just so meticulous.
748
01:24:28,856 --> 01:24:30,483
So, thank you, Bryan.
749
01:24:47,625 --> 01:24:50,587
You are the all-singing,
all-dancing crap of the world.
750
01:24:53,172 --> 01:24:58,011
(Chuck) That's Carsten's line.
My friend, Carsten, he's German.
751
01:24:58,177 --> 01:25:01,723
He described everything as all-singing
and all-dancing for a long time.
752
01:25:06,185 --> 01:25:10,440
(Jim) Now, this scene
needed to work on a couple of levels.
753
01:25:14,193 --> 01:25:17,614
He tries to talk to her
about her relationship with Tyler.
754
01:25:17,697 --> 01:25:22,869
She responds by talking about her
relationship with him, since he is Tyler.
755
01:25:23,620 --> 01:25:28,041
And he thinks that she's asking him
about his relationship with Tyler.
756
01:25:44,265 --> 01:25:45,933
It was the smart move on her part.
757
01:25:46,100 --> 01:25:49,854
(Chuck) That is such a heartless line.
It makes me laugh every time.
758
01:26:18,925 --> 01:26:23,262
No... That's not the same thing at all.
It's totally different with us.
759
01:26:23,971 --> 01:26:26,265
(Chuck) The "us" he's talking about
is him and Tyler.
760
01:27:40,089 --> 01:27:43,217
This whole part
is based on Zen monasteries,
761
01:27:43,301 --> 01:27:45,219
where you have to wait
outside for three days
762
01:27:45,303 --> 01:27:47,346
before you're allowed to come in and train.
763
01:27:50,183 --> 01:27:52,101
It just seemed to work, you know.
764
01:28:51,410 --> 01:28:55,331
Sooner or later,
we all became what Tyler wanted us to be.
765
01:28:55,414 --> 01:29:00,837
(Jim) That's a significant line
because Jack's finding himself
766
01:29:02,171 --> 01:29:05,633
more and more
just doing what Tyler tells him to do.
767
01:29:17,937 --> 01:29:20,439
If you look at the clerk scene
with the gun,
768
01:29:20,523 --> 01:29:24,193
Jack was very uncomfortable with the gun
and the way it was done,
769
01:29:24,277 --> 01:29:26,779
but then he got
the idea and agreed with it.
770
01:29:28,155 --> 01:29:33,119
It seems like he starts the process
of going along with this,
771
01:29:34,078 --> 01:29:36,539
but he's unsure at the same time,
772
01:29:36,622 --> 01:29:40,626
and that's what eventually deteriorates
to when he's against it.
773
01:29:41,669 --> 01:29:47,216
(Chuck) It's a nice symmetry
that he saves Big Bob at this point.
774
01:29:48,175 --> 01:29:53,222
But Big Bob is the catalyst that completely
puts him off at Bob's death.
775
01:30:29,592 --> 01:30:35,222
There's a Scientologist practice called
bull baiting that I've always heard about,
776
01:30:35,306 --> 01:30:39,769
where someone shouts abuse in your face,
777
01:30:40,353 --> 01:30:41,437
and you gradually get to the point
778
01:30:41,520 --> 01:30:44,357
where you no longer
sort of internalize this abuse.
779
01:30:46,525 --> 01:30:49,904
It's sort of a way
of sort of strengthening yourself.
780
01:30:50,821 --> 01:30:53,908
And I really wanted to play with that idea.
I love that concept.
781
01:31:32,530 --> 01:31:36,450
(Jim) I liked that he hugged him there
because this is the moment
782
01:31:36,701 --> 01:31:39,954
where he discovers
that he's really out of the loop
783
01:31:40,413 --> 01:31:42,748
with everything that's going on.
784
01:31:46,794 --> 01:31:51,132
(Chuck) I heard that that was the only
product placement, that Pepsi was.
785
01:31:51,382 --> 01:31:54,677
But Budweiser
must have been a product placement.
786
01:32:33,299 --> 01:32:35,926
I thought this was really interesting acting
787
01:32:36,010 --> 01:32:40,473
because they have to act
like he was with them, because he was.
788
01:32:41,265 --> 01:32:44,769
And they have to act like he's now denying
that he has any knowledge.
789
01:33:00,826 --> 01:33:04,080
(Chuck) Hope is the name
of the sickle-cell anemia circle.
790
01:33:04,914 --> 01:33:10,336
Hope is also the name of the project
that this man is talking about.
791
01:33:11,170 --> 01:33:12,922
Is there a connection?
792
01:33:13,005 --> 01:33:14,840
(Jim) Not that I'm aware of.
793
01:33:57,633 --> 01:33:59,593
(Chuck) It's sort of a problem -
794
01:34:00,636 --> 01:34:04,348
as he's pushing into the door,
there's no deadbolt.
795
01:34:04,682 --> 01:34:07,393
As he's pushing in, there's no deadbolt.
796
01:34:07,768 --> 01:34:10,271
But after that, there's
deadbolts on the door.
797
01:34:10,354 --> 01:34:12,982
And I thought,
"Why would there be a deadbolt?"
798
01:34:13,065 --> 01:34:16,443
But the other day, I was in a bathroom
that did have a deadbolt on the door.
799
01:35:02,364 --> 01:35:05,159
A few years ago, in Tacoma,
800
01:35:05,242 --> 01:35:09,371
there were a lot of
bacteria poisonings at a Jack in the Box,
801
01:35:09,455 --> 01:35:11,165
and some children were killed.
802
01:35:11,248 --> 01:35:15,336
And it really impressed me
how we trust our lives
803
01:35:15,419 --> 01:35:20,966
with the people that we give absolutely
the least respect and the least money to,
804
01:35:21,133 --> 01:35:26,639
and yet they hold the lives of us
and our children, literally, in their hands.
805
01:35:27,556 --> 01:35:32,019
And these are the people that we want
to give minimum wage and abuse.
806
01:35:32,811 --> 01:35:36,732
It seemed really odd that these
are the people that hold the most power.
807
01:35:42,571 --> 01:35:47,368
(Jim) Psychologically, what's going on
is that Tyler is conventionally handsome,
808
01:35:48,786 --> 01:35:51,288
and this character, the boy, Angel Face,
809
01:35:51,372 --> 01:35:53,666
is conventionally good-looking.
810
01:35:54,208 --> 01:35:58,420
And there's a jealousy that it could even be
811
01:35:59,630 --> 01:36:01,966
looked at from a hetero point of view of
812
01:36:02,883 --> 01:36:04,551
my best friend would rather hang out
813
01:36:04,635 --> 01:36:08,138
with a more fair-haired,
good-looking friend,
814
01:36:08,597 --> 01:36:10,849
because it's cooler somehow.
815
01:36:12,351 --> 01:36:16,563
But also, it obviously
has homosexual connotations as well.
816
01:36:28,033 --> 01:36:33,080
(Chuck) This is another thing, getting back
to just the joy of destroying things.
817
01:36:33,706 --> 01:36:38,585
Steinbeck used to write about how little
boys would walk miles to break a window.
818
01:36:40,546 --> 01:36:45,759
I went to a party once where they provided
hundreds of plates to break against a wall.
819
01:36:46,343 --> 01:36:49,805
It was a great party.
There's a joy in breaking things.
820
01:36:51,890 --> 01:36:54,143
And it's not just a guy thing.
821
01:36:56,353 --> 01:36:59,565
(Jim) I sort of hosted an impromptu
glass-breaking party
822
01:36:59,648 --> 01:37:00,858
at one of my apartments.
823
01:37:01,191 --> 01:37:05,738
It wasn't intended to be that way
in the beginning, but it turned into that.
824
01:37:05,821 --> 01:37:07,573
I know what you're talking about.
825
01:37:57,748 --> 01:38:03,170
Jack thinks that Project Mayhem was
secretly started without his knowledge,
826
01:38:03,253 --> 01:38:07,633
but in fact, it really has been
just evolving all along from Fight Club.
827
01:38:08,550 --> 01:38:11,470
And the difference between them
is that Jack,
828
01:38:12,096 --> 01:38:16,600
to him, the relationship with Tyler
is more important than the organization.
829
01:38:16,683 --> 01:38:18,977
But to Tyler
the relationship is meaningless.
830
01:38:19,311 --> 01:38:21,897
He wants to destroy
Jack's ego consciousness
831
01:38:21,980 --> 01:38:25,943
and make him a participant
in the greater good.
832
01:38:27,152 --> 01:38:33,409
(Chuck) The line, "You determine your own
involvement" is the way it is in the world.
833
01:38:33,700 --> 01:38:37,162
You can hide out
in your really beautifully decorated home
834
01:38:37,246 --> 01:38:41,375
or you can decide how much of the world
you want to take responsibility for.
835
01:38:41,458 --> 01:38:44,044
And it's perfect. I love that line.
836
01:38:47,214 --> 01:38:50,467
Forget about what you think you know
about life, friendship,
837
01:38:50,551 --> 01:38:52,511
and especially about you and me.
838
01:38:52,803 --> 01:38:57,850
(Chuck) That's a beautiful hint, because it
works on so many ambiguous levels.
839
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:02,354
We're not friends,
but in a way, it's the truth.
840
01:39:52,613 --> 01:39:56,992
Hitting bottom isn't a weekend retreat.
It's not a goddamn seminar.
841
01:39:57,075 --> 01:40:00,245
Stop trying to control everything
and just let go!
842
01:40:03,415 --> 01:40:04,583
Let go!
843
01:40:04,791 --> 01:40:08,086
(Chuck) I love those lines.
I thought that was a terrific...
844
01:40:08,170 --> 01:40:13,800
I've seen this many times, and I still get...
right up the spine when he says that.
845
01:41:05,644 --> 01:41:09,898
And what you do here by reconnecting
back to the car accident thing...
846
01:41:09,982 --> 01:41:13,110
- (Jim) Yeah, I thought that was necessary.
- Perfect.
847
01:41:13,944 --> 01:41:16,780
Why didn't I think to do that in the book?
848
01:41:17,489 --> 01:41:21,326
You made connections, you know,
that I should have made. Damn.
849
01:41:38,051 --> 01:41:40,804
This is really spooky because this scene
850
01:41:41,013 --> 01:41:44,808
is how I envisioned
Jack's father leaving him.
851
01:41:45,559 --> 01:41:48,520
This is exactly what Jack's father
probably said.
852
01:41:48,770 --> 01:41:52,107
"You'll never see me again,
but you'll have a great life."
853
01:41:52,190 --> 01:41:56,361
"You're gonna do things I never did. You're
gonna have a world, blah, blah, blah."
854
01:41:56,862 --> 01:42:01,366
And then he said goodbye and walked out
the door and Jack never saw him again.
855
01:42:01,450 --> 01:42:05,871
So when Tyler does this,
it's creepy and heartbreaking.
856
01:42:11,335 --> 01:42:13,170
And then this "champ" line.
857
01:42:13,378 --> 01:42:15,130
Feel better, champ.
858
01:42:15,589 --> 01:42:17,799
- (Jim) That's like a father.
- Exactly.
859
01:42:18,216 --> 01:42:22,054
It's just twisted.
You know, it's just so cruel.
860
01:42:58,590 --> 01:43:01,677
(Jim) What I like is
who knows how long he's been asleep?
861
01:43:01,760 --> 01:43:04,930
He walks downstairs
and all of this is going on
862
01:43:06,139 --> 01:43:11,311
and it reinforces his alienation
from the organization.
863
01:43:13,522 --> 01:43:19,403
(Chuck) And also, he's obsolete at this
point. It runs itself. It perpetuates itself.
864
01:43:19,486 --> 01:43:23,949
It reproduces itself.
He can't control it, it's out of his hands.
865
01:43:24,616 --> 01:43:26,868
It's basically the way
I started feeling about the book
866
01:43:26,952 --> 01:43:28,787
after it started getting published.
867
01:43:57,691 --> 01:44:02,070
(Jim) What works about that
is even though they think he's Tyler...
868
01:44:02,487 --> 01:44:04,281
But to us at this point,
869
01:44:04,406 --> 01:44:09,286
we would expect that Jack would have
a position of vice president,
870
01:44:09,745 --> 01:44:14,583
so it's not unusual or it's not surprising
to us that they say "sir" to him.
871
01:44:39,399 --> 01:44:43,361
(Chuck) She's just wonderful here.
Just heartbreaking in that coat.
872
01:44:44,029 --> 01:44:48,825
It's like Audrey Hepburn on heroin,
you know, it's so perfect.
873
01:44:51,703 --> 01:44:53,121
Tyler went away.
874
01:44:53,205 --> 01:44:56,792
Again, somebody talks about themselves
in the third person,
875
01:44:56,875 --> 01:44:59,127
just like she did, when she said,
876
01:44:59,252 --> 01:45:03,381
"She's a wonderful, charming girl,
she just lost faith in herself."
877
01:45:04,090 --> 01:45:07,219
We've established that narrative,
so he can do it now
878
01:45:07,719 --> 01:45:09,513
and she understands.
879
01:45:09,679 --> 01:45:11,264
He's talking about himself.
880
01:45:20,607 --> 01:45:22,984
Now, did you hear about the Big Bob doll?
881
01:45:24,528 --> 01:45:27,280
(Jim) No, not the specifics anyway.
882
01:45:27,489 --> 01:45:30,408
(Chuck) The big, dead body
they flop down is a doll.
883
01:45:30,575 --> 01:45:34,120
And David wanted to give it
to Planet Hollywood,
884
01:45:34,371 --> 01:45:37,374
but only if they would serve guacamole
out of the head.
885
01:45:39,668 --> 01:45:42,712
- Did you hear about shooting this scene?
- (Jim) No.
886
01:45:42,796 --> 01:45:47,676
(Chuck) I guess this was the toughest scene
to shoot, because this giant, multi-ton ball,
887
01:45:48,134 --> 01:45:51,596
when it hit the water,
it floated across the water, it was so light.
888
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:54,724
It took them forever
to shoot this scene because of that.
889
01:47:02,500 --> 01:47:03,668
Now, you listen to me.
890
01:47:03,752 --> 01:47:08,131
This is a man and he has a name,
and it's Robert Paulsen, OK?
891
01:47:08,673 --> 01:47:10,467
(Jim) My idea here was that...
892
01:47:10,550 --> 01:47:13,428
In the book, everyone recites,
"His name is Robert Paulsen,"
893
01:47:13,511 --> 01:47:18,475
but I wanted to show the genesis
of how a misunderstanding led to that.
894
01:47:18,975 --> 01:47:22,354
He's just trying to tell them
this is Robert Paulsen,
895
01:47:22,437 --> 01:47:26,524
but this guy gets the idea that in death
they're supposed to have a name.
896
01:47:28,026 --> 01:47:30,278
(Chuck) And so they're just
sort of parroting him.
897
01:47:30,570 --> 01:47:33,198
(all) His name is Robert Paulsen.
898
01:47:58,390 --> 01:48:03,478
It makes a really nice, sort of psychic
breaking point for him to flee.
899
01:48:13,530 --> 01:48:16,491
These are supposed
to be boarding passes or something?
900
01:48:16,574 --> 01:48:18,576
(Jim) Right, but they're used.
901
01:48:18,910 --> 01:48:21,496
That's how he knows where Tyler went.
902
01:48:54,946 --> 01:48:59,784
(Chuck) It's funny, this is sweet, because
now people keep telling me stories
903
01:48:59,868 --> 01:49:02,412
that they've heard about me, you know.
904
01:49:02,495 --> 01:49:07,250
"I hear Chuck Palahniuk lives in a castle
on an island and he won't sign books."
905
01:49:07,333 --> 01:49:09,586
All this shit that's not true.
906
01:49:10,837 --> 01:49:13,214
These are all
really beautifully foreshadowing.
907
01:49:57,092 --> 01:50:00,095
I was living in a state of perpetual déjà vu.
908
01:50:01,012 --> 01:50:04,182
Everywhere I went,
I felt I'd already been there.
909
01:50:05,934 --> 01:50:07,393
(Jim) More clues.
910
01:50:08,978 --> 01:50:13,024
(Chuck) I can't believe people
didn't figure it out. Come on. Come on.
911
01:50:13,108 --> 01:50:15,693
Rosebud is a sled, people. Figure it out.
912
01:50:58,820 --> 01:51:02,365
This is so sweet
when he points to the kiss on his hand.
913
01:51:02,824 --> 01:51:07,829
That is so much cleaner than how I did it
in the book. Thank you very much. Christ.
914
01:51:34,230 --> 01:51:36,357
- Have we ever done it?
- Done what?
915
01:51:36,441 --> 01:51:39,611
- Had sex.
- What kind of stupid question is that?
916
01:51:39,861 --> 01:51:42,614
Stupid because the answer's yes
or because it's no?
917
01:51:42,697 --> 01:51:45,200
- Is this a trick?
- No. I need to know...
918
01:51:45,283 --> 01:51:48,953
You wanna know if I think
we were just having sex or making love?
919
01:51:49,495 --> 01:51:53,625
(Jim) I wanted to draw it out as long
as possible, not getting an answer.
920
01:54:59,102 --> 01:55:00,978
It's called a changeover.
921
01:55:01,062 --> 01:55:05,191
The movie goes on,
and nobody in the audience has any idea.
922
01:55:05,733 --> 01:55:08,569
(Chuck) Now, that line
about nobody having any idea,
923
01:55:08,653 --> 01:55:12,657
was that an allusion to the audience not
accepting the premise
924
01:55:12,740 --> 01:55:14,534
or getting confused?
925
01:55:14,826 --> 01:55:16,702
(Jim) No, no, not at all.
926
01:55:19,080 --> 01:55:22,917
(Chuck) I thought this was a real smart way
of getting information in.
927
01:56:41,621 --> 01:56:46,125
Now, was Tyler originally planning
to kill himself and Marla
928
01:56:46,209 --> 01:56:48,252
in the one building that didn't blow up?
929
01:56:51,589 --> 01:56:52,924
(Jim) Actually,
930
01:56:53,424 --> 01:56:57,637
when we get to that point,
ask me that question again.
931
01:57:53,484 --> 01:57:57,530
(Chuck) This is a really nice way
to put a little humor in at this point.
932
01:58:47,830 --> 01:58:50,875
I love this. When she finally
feels like she's gonna win,
933
01:58:50,958 --> 01:58:52,543
she's gonna get something back...
934
01:59:09,935 --> 01:59:14,065
You have very serious emotional problems
935
01:59:14,231 --> 01:59:16,484
for which you should
seek professional help.
936
01:59:17,401 --> 01:59:19,111
(Jim) This coming from Marla.
937
01:59:36,337 --> 01:59:39,423
(Chuck) Now, you saw that -
Seven Years In Tibet, here.
938
01:59:39,507 --> 01:59:44,512
Across the street is Wings of the Dove
and The People vs. Larry Flint,
939
01:59:44,595 --> 01:59:46,597
but we never really see them in the shot.
940
02:00:11,038 --> 02:00:13,833
I'm not paying this back.
I consider it asshole tax.
941
02:00:14,417 --> 02:00:18,879
(Jim) That's actually something I said
to somebody once that lent me money,
942
02:00:18,963 --> 02:00:23,676
but he had done some things to disturb me
and I said, "This is asshole tax."
943
02:01:33,496 --> 02:01:38,250
It's interesting that he's so articulate
in explaining everything.
944
02:01:38,334 --> 02:01:42,296
It's as if he's pulling up
Tyler's memory bank,
945
02:01:42,379 --> 02:01:45,174
or knowledge bank, to say all this stuff.
946
02:02:31,762 --> 02:02:34,348
(Chuck) This was such a smooth way
of dealing with this.
947
02:02:36,100 --> 02:02:38,185
(Jim) I remember you
had it happen in a bus,
948
02:02:38,269 --> 02:02:41,772
but you gave me
the idea for police because
949
02:02:41,856 --> 02:02:45,442
a cop comes on
to the bus and participates.
950
02:02:46,944 --> 02:02:49,905
(Chuck) You have lines
where they're waiting to time it.
951
02:02:49,989 --> 02:02:53,701
They wait for the second hand
to come up around to the top of the 12.
952
02:02:53,784 --> 02:02:55,494
(Jim) That was very funny from the book.
953
02:02:59,290 --> 02:03:02,459
(Chuck) The bureaucracy
of doing something really horrific
954
02:03:02,626 --> 02:03:07,131
and trying to do something really cruel
and horrific, but do it perfectly.
955
02:03:19,101 --> 02:03:22,479
- Now, did you come up with "lead salad"?
- (Jim) No.
956
02:03:22,646 --> 02:03:24,982
(Chuck) I bet Edward came up with that.
957
02:03:30,613 --> 02:03:34,992
First person that comes out this door
gets a lead salad! Understand?
958
02:04:10,569 --> 02:04:13,697
(Chuck) Did you hear
about these buildings that get exploded?
959
02:04:14,031 --> 02:04:16,492
- (Jim) Which story?
- It's a composite.
960
02:04:16,575 --> 02:04:20,704
The fake skyline, they're all Fox properties,
961
02:04:21,080 --> 02:04:25,834
because they couldn't implode buildings
they didn't own or they would be sued.
962
02:04:27,086 --> 02:04:30,547
They're pictures
of all these different Fox buildings,
963
02:04:30,839 --> 02:04:34,343
assembled on a huge, huge Translite,
964
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:39,974
to make a fake skyline
that 20th Century Fox owns,
965
02:04:40,057 --> 02:04:41,725
or Fox News Corporation owns.
966
02:05:20,848 --> 02:05:23,809
Was he setting it up
for them to die at this point?
967
02:05:23,892 --> 02:05:26,103
Because this building
is supposed to explode too.
968
02:05:26,937 --> 02:05:30,024
(Jim) What happens -
when we get to the... I'll point it out.
969
02:05:30,941 --> 02:05:36,238
After this fight, as a result of it,
Jack passes out.
970
02:05:37,239 --> 02:05:41,243
And then we fade to black. And then,
when we come up, they're in a building.
971
02:05:41,326 --> 02:05:44,079
But they're not in the same building.
972
02:05:44,955 --> 02:05:51,503
They're in the building from which
it was slated to watch all the explosions.
973
02:06:39,176 --> 02:06:42,513
I think it's a great thing
about the film that,
974
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:48,685
even though we know the secret of Tyler,
he still remains a threat.
975
02:06:50,187 --> 02:06:55,025
Because everything he's done
is still in position to activate,
976
02:06:55,150 --> 02:07:00,030
and he's still there, being a threat,
very convincingly.
977
02:07:01,573 --> 02:07:06,203
(Chuck) Even though he's no longer
consciously even wanted, he does,
978
02:07:06,286 --> 02:07:08,705
he is usurping the consciousness.
979
02:07:18,340 --> 02:07:21,802
It's funny how many people
are angry that Tyler got killed.
980
02:07:21,885 --> 02:07:25,180
And people are now trying
to buy the rights to Tyler Durden
981
02:07:25,264 --> 02:07:28,725
so they can write
subsequent books about Tyler.
982
02:07:34,106 --> 02:07:37,818
Tyler, I'm not kidding!
Get away from the van!
983
02:07:37,901 --> 02:07:39,361
Goddammit!
984
02:07:40,571 --> 02:07:42,823
Whoa! Whoa!
985
02:07:46,076 --> 02:07:47,077
OK.
986
02:07:47,452 --> 02:07:50,622
You are now firing a gun
at your imaginary friend
987
02:07:50,747 --> 02:07:53,208
near 400 gallons of nitroglycerin!
988
02:07:54,877 --> 02:07:59,756
That is really sweet
because it foreshadows Tyler's knowledge
989
02:07:59,923 --> 02:08:03,594
that the death of either of them
is the death of both of them.
990
02:08:16,982 --> 02:08:19,693
I can't figure out how they got that shot.
991
02:08:19,776 --> 02:08:23,655
How did they pan across
and have Brad at both ends of the shot?
992
02:08:24,615 --> 02:08:28,285
(Jim) I don't know.
That is quite an accomplishment.
993
02:08:29,953 --> 02:08:32,247
(Chuck) It's so subtle,
you don't even think about it.
994
02:08:54,478 --> 02:08:57,064
(Jim) It has an insane absurdity to it,
995
02:08:57,147 --> 02:09:00,859
to be beaten up
by your own alternate personality.
996
02:09:01,109 --> 02:09:06,657
(Chuck) Right.
In a way, it's like a huge Greek archetype,
997
02:09:06,740 --> 02:09:10,619
in that your fatal flaw
is what destroys you.
998
02:09:11,161 --> 02:09:14,915
You know, the one thing,
your wildness or your, I don't know...
999
02:09:14,998 --> 02:09:18,877
The one thing you can't control,
no matter how hard you work,
1000
02:09:19,002 --> 02:09:21,255
that's the part that's gonna kill you.
1001
02:09:29,888 --> 02:09:34,768
I thought that was beautiful because it
fits with, "I fell down some stairs" earlier.
1002
02:09:34,851 --> 02:09:38,021
- Was that conscious?
- (Jim) I can't...
1003
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:41,316
- I can't say it was.
- (Chuck) I wish it was.
1004
02:09:41,400 --> 02:09:43,735
(Jim) Or maybe it was on David's part.
1005
02:09:46,863 --> 02:09:51,326
So it faded to black and faded up here,
and this is a different building.
1006
02:10:31,074 --> 02:10:37,664
(Chuck) It's funny how there's never any
unintentional anything in David's movies.
1007
02:10:38,749 --> 02:10:40,667
When she's first put on
the bus and you think
1008
02:10:40,751 --> 02:10:44,504
you see a bunch of shadows around her,
1009
02:10:45,005 --> 02:10:47,591
you think maybe that was just people.
1010
02:10:48,508 --> 02:10:52,471
And so, at this point,
this sort of confirms what you suspected.
1011
02:10:55,098 --> 02:10:58,352
He's such a control freak.
Come on, David. Let go.
1012
02:11:56,076 --> 02:12:01,289
It's funny because it really was
a frustrating movie,
1013
02:12:01,498 --> 02:12:05,168
because it raises my standards for movies.
1014
02:12:05,710 --> 02:12:07,295
And now I watch movies and I'm like,
1015
02:12:07,379 --> 02:12:10,549
"Why aren't they better written
and better filmed?"
1016
02:12:10,632 --> 02:12:15,011
And there is not one shot in the movie
that isn't a beauty shot.
1017
02:12:15,595 --> 02:12:17,097
And there is not one thing
1018
02:12:17,180 --> 02:12:20,142
that a huge amount of
attention and thought didn't go into.
1019
02:12:20,225 --> 02:12:25,689
And movies after this
are just an enormous disappointment.
1020
02:12:26,731 --> 02:12:32,612
Plot-wise, appearance-wise, acting-wise,
it's raised the standards
1021
02:12:32,696 --> 02:12:36,324
and it's made me really disgusted
with most movies.
1022
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:39,870
So, hey, damn you, David Fincher.
1023
02:12:42,706 --> 02:12:48,879
(Jim) It was a combination of being
blown away by the finished product,
1024
02:12:50,213 --> 02:12:52,883
and at the same time,
it matched expectations
1025
02:12:52,966 --> 02:12:57,220
in the sense that
it looked exactly right to me.
1026
02:12:57,721 --> 02:13:03,602
So I was both pleased, but I also
felt like this is the way I saw it.
1027
02:13:48,563 --> 02:13:53,318
(Chuck) I love that sound. I don't know what
they did - dropped a steak on the floor...
1028
02:13:54,611 --> 02:13:59,074
(Jim) I think one of the things
that seems ambiguous about this
1029
02:13:59,157 --> 02:14:05,622
is, in the book, he blew his cheek,
blew a hole in his cheek.
1030
02:14:06,748 --> 02:14:09,918
This wound looks
much more severe through the neck.
1031
02:14:10,001 --> 02:14:16,132
And I've had people ask me if, in fact,
Jack is not dead for the rest of the film.
1032
02:14:16,508 --> 02:14:18,134
And this is a...
1033
02:14:18,635 --> 02:14:20,929
(Chuck) Oh, the rest is a hallucination?
1034
02:14:21,012 --> 02:14:23,139
(Jim) Sort of a death hallucination.
1035
02:14:25,475 --> 02:14:26,893
(Chuck) Yeah, maybe.
1036
02:14:27,561 --> 02:14:30,772
- You look awful. You need assistance.
- (rasping) I'm fine.
1037
02:14:34,276 --> 02:14:40,490
(Chuck) I love that. I love that continuous
denial of how fucked things really are.
1038
02:14:40,824 --> 02:14:42,450
"No, I'm fine."
1039
02:15:15,358 --> 02:15:18,445
- I can't believe he's standing.
- Tough motherfucker.
1040
02:15:18,528 --> 02:15:23,241
(Chuck) Instead of "tough", I wish
they had said, "crazy motherfucker".
1041
02:16:01,488 --> 02:16:05,742
It's amazing to see this because when
I watched them shoot this scene,
1042
02:16:07,661 --> 02:16:10,413
at the moment of the first explosion,
1043
02:16:10,747 --> 02:16:14,292
it was a bunch of stagehands
on the other side of those windows,
1044
02:16:14,376 --> 02:16:16,878
standing below the window, shaking them.
1045
02:16:17,879 --> 02:16:19,923
And then nothing happened.
1046
02:16:20,131 --> 02:16:22,967
So I had no idea what the effect would be.
1047
02:16:23,301 --> 02:16:26,596
And it's just so terrific
to see it all put together like this.
1048
02:16:27,138 --> 02:16:30,684
The other thing, before I forget -
the penis with the black pubic hair,
1049
02:16:30,767 --> 02:16:32,185
did you hear the story about that?
1050
02:16:32,811 --> 02:16:36,564
It was a big studio directive
that it had to have black pubic hair,
1051
02:16:36,648 --> 02:16:38,441
so nobody could say it was Brad's.
1052
02:16:40,110 --> 02:16:42,195
Now, when people say,
"Did you have a part in the movie?"
1053
02:16:42,278 --> 02:16:44,155
I say, "Yeah, I had a part."
1054
02:16:45,865 --> 02:16:47,283
But that's not true either.
1055
02:16:47,951 --> 02:16:53,331
(Jim) Originally, I had wanted to have
from Jack's POV, looking at the boss,
1056
02:16:54,124 --> 02:16:55,875
the film slows down,
1057
02:16:55,959 --> 02:17:00,422
and then there's a penis spliced in
where the boss was.
1058
02:17:00,797 --> 02:17:04,426
And I wrote that into the script
and David liked the effect,
1059
02:17:04,509 --> 02:17:08,388
but he thought it better to do
that whole effect at the end of the movie.
1060
02:17:08,471 --> 02:17:12,058
The implication is Tyler is in
the projection room
1061
02:17:12,142 --> 02:17:14,060
of the theater you're watching this in.
1062
02:17:14,144 --> 02:17:17,313
(Chuck) So it would have been on the boss
instead of at the end?
1063
02:17:17,564 --> 02:17:20,400
(Jim) Just a little hallucination
for Jack to have.
1064
02:17:20,483 --> 02:17:24,821
(Chuck) And it's terrific
because it truncates the romantic ending.
1065
02:17:24,904 --> 02:17:27,157
And the Pixies' song is great.
1066
02:17:27,699 --> 02:17:34,497
And the false complacency: "Everything
is gonna be all right" - when, in fact, no.
1067
02:17:36,458 --> 02:17:39,711
There's still 6,000 space monkeys outside
1068
02:17:39,794 --> 02:17:42,213
and things are
not really gonna be all right.
1069
02:17:43,089 --> 02:17:46,009
But at least we know
what we're dealing with at this point.
1070
02:17:48,178 --> 02:17:53,475
And it's funny that
people want such a clean, happy ending.
1071
02:17:53,975 --> 02:17:58,855
But that's never the case. I think the only
happy ending we get is when we die.
1072
02:17:59,355 --> 02:18:04,319
I mean, life is just always more and more,
so why shouldn't this be more and more?
1073
02:18:07,071 --> 02:18:11,743
People are already talking about, "Are you
gonna write a sequel to the book?"
1074
02:18:12,035 --> 02:18:14,245
And I swore I would never do that.
1075
02:18:14,329 --> 02:18:16,915
I can't imagine something
that'd be less fun
1076
02:18:17,665 --> 02:18:20,502
than writing a sequel to a book
I've already written.
1077
02:18:21,211 --> 02:18:22,837
(Jim) What would it be?
1078
02:18:24,839 --> 02:18:28,551
(Chuck) Yeah. It would be somehow
bringing Tyler back from the dead.
1079
02:18:41,898 --> 02:18:46,277
Raymond called me once from New York
and we talked for about two hours -
1080
02:18:47,153 --> 02:18:49,364
Raymond Bongiovanni there.
1081
02:18:49,572 --> 02:18:52,951
It was before he got
anybody else to read this stuff.
1082
02:18:53,368 --> 02:18:56,329
It was back in the summer of '95
when I first wrote it.
1083
02:18:56,412 --> 02:18:59,958
I think Raymond was calling
to find out if I was a psycho or not,
1084
02:19:00,041 --> 02:19:05,547
because I'm not sure if he was gonna
get people to read it if I was a maniac.
1085
02:19:05,630 --> 02:19:06,631
But God bless Raymond.
1086
02:19:06,714 --> 02:19:07,715
English - US - SDH
1086
02:19:08,305 --> 02:20:08,371
5 days of Hacking / Camping / Lectures
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